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Post by johnwalter on Nov 25, 2012 5:26:03 GMT
There seems to maybe be a misconception as to what is a "proper" Hi termination.Many people,especially newer to the katana,seem to think that a "proper" Hi(groove) termination should follow the boshi of the kissake.This thought isn't exactly correct.I have seen in books,on the net and in person,Nihonto examples,koto,sue koto,shinto,shinshinto,gendaito and shinsakuto,that have slightly pointed and also rounded terminations. Some may be better executed than others,no doubt,and some maybe more aeshetically pleasing to your eye,but to say one is right and one is wrong is,well,incorrect. Thoughts anyone?
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 25, 2012 6:12:17 GMT
I've been told to edit my post (itseems to already have been edited for me while I was away yesterday) due to its having "suggestive themes." So yeah, sorry for any issues.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 6:29:39 GMT
Hi John, I second your statement, from what I've read, can't quote references at present, the hi can terminate in various fashions, depending on the period in Japanese history and the style of the smith.
Considering that the Jpanese originally learned to forge swords from the Choinese, we again see the fullers in Chinese swords terminate in different ways, no right or wrong, the fuller is there to reduce weight, the aesthetics of how the fuller channel finishes is not constrained in any way culturally or stylistically.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 25, 2012 6:30:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 6:36:58 GMT
Kuya, Take a look at the nihonto being sold here: www.nihonto.com.au/You'll see that the hi width and termination vary greatly.
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 25, 2012 6:42:20 GMT
Kuya-ROTFLMFAO!!!I can't believe you ent thereLOL!Not sure if the mods will allow it,but...wow!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 7:04:26 GMT
Perfect example!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 19:20:22 GMT
Hi, or howdy or hello or well you get it, the english language says one word so many ways. it is an 1/4 " of asthetic quality. Subjective to many factors but only subjective in its nature. " in regard to carvings, engravings, and grindings, the steel does't care about this. The steel only cares that changes made to it are to improve the structural integrity. Any time steel parts from steel, it must be done so at the exact proper location, or the sword will break whereas it would not normally do so. Steel fractures in its core and further fails from here. Even if he nick is polished out, which it must never be, for this is the honor of the steel, the fracture may remain throughout the steel un be knownst to its master." -Kadaoi
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Marc Kaden Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Kaden Ridgeway on Nov 26, 2012 19:41:51 GMT
Hi John... Proper bo-hi termination is a big one for me ... However, that has nothing to do with the shape of the termination, or whether it follows the fukura (not boshi) . A properly terminated bo-hi may be rounded at the end... or angled... The termination is proper due to how and where it terminates. A typical bead cut bo-hi will just taper away before the kissaki . A good hand cut bohi USUALLY (but not always) will maintain a uniform depth into the kissaki , where it terminates clearly... Here is a good example of a bead cut bo-hi... note where and how it terminates. Here a nicely done one... but still roundish... And here nicely squared off termination. It mostly doesn't matter , for what the modern sword user needs in a sword... but to me , the bead cut bohi is just a sign of serious shortcuts in the manufacturing process , and is a indicator of how much quality and attention to detail you AREN'T going to get.
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Marc Kaden Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Kaden Ridgeway on Nov 26, 2012 19:42:24 GMT
Oh... and Kuya... edit that post please.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2012 19:57:29 GMT
Personally I don't like any of them but tht is me; however, that last picture is beautiful. And waaay to close to that brick! You are a steady hand sir! My luck would have most certainly ended in a scratch! Lol
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 26, 2012 20:12:55 GMT
My thoughts exactly Marc,just trying to say that the angled bohi termination is not the standard proper.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Nov 26, 2012 22:15:10 GMT
This is an intresting topic. I have tried to read a lot about this in couple days, and I've gotten bit puzzled, like I usually do. The conventional hisaki (hi termination) follows ko-shinogi shape. Yet there are some variances. Agaru and sagaru relate to the position of hisaki. And I believe rest of the terms refer to it's shape. I am not 100% sure of an actual term to this slowly fading hi, but I will call it hisaki nagashi due to the gradual fading and I'm seen nagashi being used. Here you can see one example of this hisaki type: samuraishokai.jp/sword/12146.html I also have this same hisaki style in one of my own blades, that is the main reason why I looked so deeply in this. See here: I agree with Marc that how bo-hi is made generally affects to the other parts of the production sword as well. If you pay details to some minor details, you are more likely to pay attention to other minor details as well.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 27, 2012 23:30:56 GMT
No problem, I just edited it to say that I have to edit it due to the "suggestive themes."
Anyway, the slope cut termination that is usually a Hanwei feature is also good to me. I like how it still follows the direction/flow of the blade's tip.
Cheap-o rounded fade out is gross. I wish the cheaper forges would just charge the extra $5-10 it takes to have the groove maker spend an extra few minutes to get it right. Hua Wei obviously found a way to do it. And why spend the extra time with making an improper bo-hi anyway? It would save them a little time/money to just skip that step, wouldn't it? Do it right, or don't do it at all!
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