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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 17:08:22 GMT
Anyone know did CS changed their GIM sword stuff at all? I got one today and finally happy to try this out and it came in.. I was SHOCK that it was so light in my hand! Maybe I am used to heavy swords or something? But I checked the POB and it was really at about 3-4 inch from the hilt.. so it's pretty good balance for a normal sword (I prefer it further out for sure) but then compare to my jade lion, I feel the jade lion sturdier and kinda giving me more weight feeling?!?!??! I don't have a scale with me but this is what I "feel" now. Maybe it's the cord wrap VS wood handle thing?
I know it is suppose to be 2lb something but I don't really feel it is like a 2lb something thing somehow, weird.
The blade is not convex too, it's true flat diamond and it's pretty sharp but not as sharp as the jade lion sword (when out of the box) which is easy to fix.. but then yeah.. it feels so light! Why are people complaining about this sword balance and weight all the time? did mine come in different or something???
Any CS GIm owner can clear it up?
Oh and one thing I saw different from the pictures I found on the SBG review guide.. is the nut.. the pommel is the same but the nut is a hex nut outside of the pommel, not like in the SBG review photos at all. It's a big hex! um.. now what's wrong with this?
Anyone can help me out? I wish I have a scale!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 19, 2012 18:40:23 GMT
It's simple. They've changed to please the "normal user" who don't practice properly and just want to cut cheerfully. Congratulations. That's why I go to high quality custom smith like Tinker and John Lundemo.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 18:47:51 GMT
Probably they put the weight on the battle gim instead?
How much is the new version weighted at? I wish I had an old one and will love it more for what the weight measure to.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Nov 19, 2012 19:54:48 GMT
2 lbs 2 oz
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 22:11:13 GMT
Wow, that's 2lb 2oz too ? Dang it felt like a 1lb sword to me! I guess the 1lb something version is REALLY light like paper then! sigh..
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Post by Turok on Nov 20, 2012 0:46:00 GMT
Yeah, I noticed too that yours, the new model, is quite different from the one Paul reviewed a while back. Imho I think it looks a lot better, and according to its stats at KOA, is about right for a gim. The fittings look a lot better too, (I'm not too crazy about flowers lol) and I like the carp and river theme a lot. I guess you're just used to handling heavy stuff, not surprising for a guy who practices with iron whips and Pu Daos hehehe!
BTW does your model gim also have a flat diamond bevel? Is it flat like the Jade Lion gim?
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 20, 2012 2:15:40 GMT
Yeah it does have a flat diamond and also, the fittings are less "antiqued" like the one Paul reviewed. They are all fresh and new looking, very clean and very tidy. Carp and river is very good because that's what the sword is about mostly, it's a design inspired from Chuang Tze, so it should be like that and not the flowers.. haha..
Good that they use a hex nut at the back so you can use a wrench instead of a vice grip.. haha.. more practical. But for look, the nut cap is better looking for sure.
ACtually there is a peg in the jade lion's handle and so even you open up the pommel and try to screw the nut, it won't do anything much to the sword or even tighten it up, it's not going to work. So if your jade lion got loosen up, it's doomed and the only way out is to weld the sword blade to the guard and make it one piece, that's all you can do. Sigh..!
Oh yeah, I don't only practice with the iron whip, but also some big hammers and 28lb kwan dao too! haha!
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Post by Nox on Nov 20, 2012 4:06:09 GMT
I always thought the jade lion and standard gim were very light while most people said they are heavy. The model you have is actually the 3rd one used for the standard cold steel Gim. The very first model had a bat symbol on the guard ( not sure what bats represent on swords) but I used to have it and I liked it alot, wish I could find another one.   the one with the flowery motif is the one Paul reviewed, and the third one is the one that is currently available and the one you have. |
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Post by Turok on Nov 20, 2012 4:31:59 GMT
ah yes, thanks Nox! I was just looking around the 'ol Cold Steel forums for this too, guess you beat me to it! They archive a lot of their magazines and it's kinda neat to see what they used to have. Don't think the bat gim was really popular though, don't see too many of those. Any one out there has one? BTW bats represent happiness and good luck in China. Another fun fact that is in Hong Kong, the traditional sign for a pawnshop is a bat holding a coin. I like the design personally a lot but I can see why others wouldn't. Bet it would make one hell of a prop for a batman costume!  |
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 20, 2012 4:43:13 GMT
YEah I saw those models too!
Bat is "FOOK" in Cantonese which is the same sound as the word "fortune" and it's pure folks belief here with the taboos and superstitious thing, but it had became the art style.. haha..
The bat must go upside down to hang the coin, which form the art symbol of 蝠鼠掉金錢 fook sue diu gum cheen.. meaning the "rat of fortune" bringing wealth to you. That's the thing.. hhahaha.. so for a bat on a guard of sword, it means the sword is for hanging on the wall in a house to bring and guard your fortune - so that people cannot take it away from you (burglars!). Cool eh?
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 20, 2012 4:44:42 GMT
I guess even it's about 2lb, people all don't get used to it.. cuz they are used to things like the noodles.. hahahaha.. so anything with a non-flex blade is heavy, that's all. CS need to stop listening to the crappy comments and start making some good heavy swords again, haha! I want a 4lb jian, or a 5lb jian, which is great weight for me! I have a 3,9lb sword and I want abit more!
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Post by Gundoggy on Nov 20, 2012 6:19:54 GMT
That's the old 'Carp Jian'...Gim to Cantonese  ...fittings that Huanuo used to make. I really don't like the flat diamond profile on so many of the production Gim today. Refer to this thread: forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=939This thread discusses why the clamshell profile is important. Jinshi blades have a robust geometry and steel. Garrett has studied my antique collection so hopefully some future releases will have the classic clamshell geometry. Garrett and I banged up quite a few of my swords...including a Huanuo Royal Peony (with folded steel) and the Hanwei Rodell cutting jian. Both could not withstand the rigors of crossing blades due to the inherent weakness the flattened diamond imparts on the vulnerable edge. You will find that it isn't just the POB but how the weight is distributed along the blade that contributes to 'liveliness' of the blade. Contrary to what some believe, a 'lively' blade often has weight towards the tip that contributes to rotational inertia so that when used with proper waist rotation makes the blade feel like it's moving itself. The later 'wall hanger' antiques with soft steel and many of the modern reproductions often feel 'dead' in comparison. This quality is very hard to explain unless you have handled a few antique gim. Were I collecting today, I would dispense with all the reproductions with flattened diamond geometries and patiently wait for Jinshi to release jian with clamshell shape. Don't pester Garrett as to when, he's working on it!!!! |
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Post by Gundoggy on Nov 20, 2012 6:29:24 GMT
Weight of most Gim hover around 2 lbs. Some short ones with 24" blades are around 1.5 lbs. Most blades 29" and up will be around 2 lbs or slightly more. Weights above 3 lbs are rare for antiques meant for combat but were common for training/conditioning swords. I have a beefy 31" "Village jian/gim" that weights between 2.5 and 3 lbs and it is quite the beast. My favorite swords are around 28" (measured from the actual shoulder of the blade/ NOT the front of the guard) and about 1.8lbs. Most modern practitioners/collectors like the 29"+ swords, but the 24-28" blades have a liveliness and maneuverability to them that must be felt to be believed. For indoors work, 24" or shorter are even better.
One thing to be aware of is the large wide late Qing dynasty jian with ace of spades guards often had relatively thin blades (almost like viking swords) compared to the thicker and shorter blades of earlier blades. Modern replicas that don't take into account when they put on a thick diamond profile blade with a long length will result in a heavy sword.
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Post by Turok on Nov 20, 2012 6:40:41 GMT
hey Gundoggy, do you know if all the gims that Huanou make have that flattened diamond profile? As far as I know, the Rodell Jian is the only production jian that has that turleshell/clamshell profile. I don't think KC's jians have one either.
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Post by Gundoggy on Nov 20, 2012 7:04:43 GMT
Please note, I haven't seen any recent Huanuo swords but the ones I owned all were flat diamond. The Rodell Jian has a 'slight' clamshell that wasn't enough to protect the edge when used in controlled parrying experiments. If swords got chipped in slow experiments with focus on flat parrying, imagine what happened to them in the panic of a real fight...hence the chips common in many antique blades.
Most people don't care since all they do is forms and test cutting.
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Post by Turok on Nov 20, 2012 7:26:06 GMT
thanks Gundoggy, another question I have is about antique dao scabbards. Are all antique dao scabbards wrapped in ray or pig skin? I've never seen one in person, because every antique dao I've seen is missing its scabbard.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 20, 2012 13:26:27 GMT
So do people just leave these chips and nicks on the blade and not file them down again to fix them up in the old days? That's interesting.. but what's more crazy is that now I am thinking if the sword have like 20 nicks on the edge, now imagine that chop into your shoulder and down the chest... Eww.. those nicks will REALLY give you a good jig saw effect which tears up the flesh very badly, it should really hurt a lot.. as compare to a smooth blade is a clean cut and just felt FLAMED UP when it slice thru and won't even have all that nasty jigsaw effect....
am I right?
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Post by Rafael on Nov 20, 2012 13:29:11 GMT
I also own the newer CS gim. The fish scales design on the pommel really has to be seen in person to appreciate how nice it looks. The sword is very durable and feels light in my hand, I don't think I would enjoy using a lighter version as much. Mine came from kult of Athena and was not particularly sharp. It won't cut paper. It still makes clean slices of detergent bottles and will cleanly cut through three 1.5" sugar cane stalks with ease. I don't have easy access to green bamboo =\. it is sharp but not razor sharp. Another thing worth mentioning about the sword is how much I like the scabbard. It's slim, the fittings look great, and it still keeps the blade snugly secure, even upsidedown, despite having been drawn and sheathed countless times
As far as weight I think the Jade Lion gim is actually listed as weighing 1 oz more, even though it is a bit shorter. The extra weight probably comes from the larger fittings. I also kind of wanted a heavier wider version of this sword, so last week I ordered the battle gim, also from KoA. It is hard not to constantly check for tracking updates..
Thanks for raising the issue of the blade cross-section shapes for authentic jian, I had not heard about that before.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 20, 2012 13:42:41 GMT
HEY! I also got the battle gim too! It's coming here tomorrow I think, got stuck for one day at custom, bummer! I thought I would get that today! Sigh~! Hope it is a heavier blade cuz I just want more weight on the blade so bad!
Yes you are right, the fittings on the CS Gim is indeed very nice but I think there are difference source of the CS GIM as well. As I saw on youtube, a guy made a video (is that you?!) saying he got a CS gim and it won't even cut his arm? well, that's not true with mine. Mine cut paper very well out of the box but now it's fine tune with 2000 grit sandpaper to make it sharper and more polished on the surface and it's now VERY good! I like my sword sharper to be honest, no matter what Lancelot said, hahahaha! It's a personal thing I guess. Feels better with a sharper sword.
Have you thought of sharpening the CS GIM more yourself? it should not be too hard to do with a true diamond shape kind of blade though, just sand that on a piece of sandpaper or a nice stone and it should get sharpen up easily?
I just used sandpaper (small piece) sand work it along the edge with my fingers to remove the silly blur cuz the factory sharpening job wasn't 100% good, if you wipe a cloth thru the blade, you can feel some scratchy thing.. so I removed those and now it is totally good and smooth edged!
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Post by Rafael on Nov 20, 2012 20:48:50 GMT
Hi MakChingYuen, No that is not me on YouTube . I have actually been debating whether I should send the sword back to ColdSteel since they offer a sharpening service. I don't want to be without the Gim for weeks though while I wait on them to send it back. I had also considered trying to sharpen the sword myself but I am reluctant since I don't have much experience with sharpening swords. Im worried about damaging it by doing a bad job. Maybe I will try like you suggest with sandpaper. I also have some crappier jian so I guess I can practice on one of those first. On a side note, I just finished reading the long discussion on the other thread about the bad symbol on your Taichi sword. Can you recommend a good English translation of the Taoteching, or are all versions considered not relevant for real Taoism? The version I've had for years has that line about the Tao that can be talked about is not the real Tao. It sounds like I need a better version. |
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...fittings that Huanuo used to make. I really don't like the flat diamond profile on so many of the production Gim today. Refer to this thread:
