|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 16, 2012 13:26:37 GMT
Hey all, I know some of you have this sword, can you please tell me abit more about it? The wrong tai chi logo there pissed me off but then I wanted to know what's bad about it other than the design on the silly taichi that go the wrong way?
Is the damascus steel real deal? (I know the wootz thing, but I am just asking is it a real folded steel? or it is just a welded on pattern instead?)
I heard it wobbles and rattles, did you guys got it fixed up? and can it secure after the fix? if so, it the blade withstand some cuttings as well? how's the sharpness out of the box?
Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Nox on Nov 16, 2012 18:36:20 GMT
I had this sword a while back, it was one of the first hanwei swords I bought. The sword was really light and the blade was pretty thin, a bit thinner than the jade Lion sword, it was not so sharp but could cut something like a milk jug. After I swung it around for a few days the handle got pretty loose, I just had to keep tightening the nut, but after a while I didn't use it for any cutting, just forms.
I think the damascus pattern was real, but I'm not sure because when I had the sword( a few years ago) I didn't know much about damascus patterns.
Overall I thought it was a nice light sword for forms, but just don't handle it to rough like I did if you get one.
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 16, 2012 20:45:49 GMT
Thanks. So did the handle get smashed up by the nut or did the guard thing got squished up because you say you have to keep tightening the nut up again and again,... so that mean the sword must be either loose on the guard or pommel.. will that tightening break the handle or crack the wood? did you try using locktite or anything to lock the nut in place?
Wow, lighter than the jade lion sword, that is very light. From photos, I thought it was heavy or about the weight of the jade lion sword. Tricky outlook.. and can you bend the blade with ease? like the normal regular dragonwell swords kinda semi-flexy?
Not so sharp meaning the edge can or cannot cut paper with ease?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 7:54:26 GMT
Mak, the Hanwei Damascus Taiji sword (SH1013) would not rated as a durable cutter, it would be only for display or forms practice. Many of the lighter Hanwei Chinese swords are not built for real cutting. They will cut bottles, mats, etc, but will not withstand hard test cutting or real combat stresses, they are for display and forms practice, even though they do cut. The only ones I know are serious cutting blades are the Hanwei Cutting Jian and their two dadado, the Military Dadao and Warlord Dadao are very durable. Not sure about the rest.
|
|
|
Post by Nox on Nov 17, 2012 9:58:08 GMT
I'm with blackthorn on this one, the blade was a bit to thin to cut, and the tang on mine was way to thin for the handle so it moved around, that is why I had to keep tightening the nut, eventually I wrapped electrical tape around the tang just so it would hold better in the handle. I would say if you want a light sword for forms get it, but if you want something more durable there are better options.
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 11:27:54 GMT
about $400 for a form only blade and a letter opener? you can get a much better blade made by other places, even dragonwell with that kind of price! Hanwei is kinda over charging for crap. period.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 12:26:39 GMT
They make a lot of good swords from other cultures, unfortunately only some of their Chinese swords are really made for cutting. Their Japanese and European swords are very good. A shame really considering they are made in China, the Chinese swords get the least attention...
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 12:37:28 GMT
That's sad, Chinese make Japanese sword better and make crappy Chinese swords.. hahaa.. just like Dragonwell now, I guess is all about sales. The things that get sold faster off the shelf gets more respect in the production line cuz they fear more people will point out their flaw. But the crappy Chinese people won't because they are well known for "shut the hell up like a house dog" for decades. Many Chinese get bully and don't speak out, they just swallow it. Why? Thanks to the crooked kings and queens that brainwashed the culture with BS knowledge. If you see this, you will be shock about how awful China is nowadays, people really don't speak out, and they really don't!
That's china, come on, China is doomed and ended already since the Yuen Dynasty! (gone to Mongolians and off it goes to all the crappy kings and queens!)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 15:03:07 GMT
I'm learning about my Chinese history now that I'm also learning taiji. What I find amzing is that for a nation that was "once considered the wealthiest, most inventive and most technologically advanced in the world" (China Condensed: 5000 Years of History & Culture By Siew Chey Ong) had declined so far - the blind focus on the 12 century old outdated civil service examinations that focussed only on literature (ignoring sciemce/technology) and corrupt examination officials wasted the talents of many brilliant minds, the complacency of the Ming dynasty, thinking it was so far ahead it ceased forward progress, and closed itself off from learning from any other nation, and the final nail in the coffin was the corrupt Qing dynasty's concubine of Emperor Xianfeng, the empress dowager Cixi, who became leader and sent China so much faster to its total decline.
So different from the Three Kingdoms period I've been learning about with the Battle of Red Cliffs, General Guan Yu...
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 18:08:59 GMT
You are right, except this.
The three kingdom is a novel you know? it's fake. You have to find the real HISTORY version and read that. General Kwan Yu is not that heroic and good, infact, all that crap in the novel talking about him like a hero, a god like fighter and so on is all fake and made him. He is a guy who always arrive late to battle, he seldom fight and he is even very dishonest and betrayal as well. Read the history book version and you will know. The 3 brothers thing is fake, it's not even real in history. Lau Bei, Kwan Yu, Jeung Fei .. people all believe they are really 3 good friends turn into brothers in the garden eh? FAKE! Dang.. a lot of Chinese culture is so F'd up because of these novels that brainwashed people into false believe and there goes the craziness into worshipping Kwan Yu too, who isn't even a god or anything and he is not even as honest, brave and so on as you think. Loyalty? Come on, read the history and you hate this guy already! No way!
I can't say more.. but just read the HISTORY version and you will hate that novel soon..
|
|
|
Post by Nox on Nov 17, 2012 18:37:41 GMT
To be fair I think almost every culture and their history is like that, their are the fictional stories that make people from history glorified heroes, but if you research the real history it's far from the truth. I believe the William Wallace story from Scotland is much like that if i remember correctly. Truth is Society likes to have heroes to look up to and glorify, and later many of these heroes from stories become "gods" that are respected and worshiped.
Shame though I like the three kingdoms novel.
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 20:32:57 GMT
I do agree, the novel is fun to read but just that if you want to really not get influenced by the FAKE stuff, you need to also read the real history to know the truth too. The novel is a piece of art, it's really cool and it's well written too. For entertainment, it's cool and it's a piece of art that must be kept for decades.. but it's a must for readers to know - this is a fiction. hahaha.. even computer games and dramas on TV are all based on the fiction version of the 3 kingdoms because it's more fun to watch!!! Now the problem is, all the kids thinks that is the real thing and they grow up and taught their kids about THAT kind of history.. hey man, it is a virus now if no one reveal the truth.. haha..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 0:22:04 GMT
Hi Mak, yes I do know "The Romance of The Three Kindgdoms" story is fictional, it's classic Chinese literature, its a great story and fun to read. :lol: I'm actually learning the real history of how the three kingdoms of Wei, Shu and Wu really fought each other, the real battle of Red Cliffs and Cao Cao and his attempts to unite China. It's really fascinating history. With Guan Yu, yes, like all cultures, they mythologise the person and make them legendary,bigger than real life! it's been said that historically Guan Yu probably didn't use ayan yue dao ("reclining moon blade") at all. Historically he played a major role in the civil war that brought down the Han dynasty and led to the creation of the state of Shu Han which had Liu Bei as its first emperor. We was a historically important militart leader, and yes they did make him a god! As Nox said, every culture does the same, they create ideals to which people look up to and aspire to be like. William Wallace in the stories is portrayed as a poor man, he was in fact an aristocrat. Look at the stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, the real history is lost in myth. The Japanese, their whole history is one big myth and so is a lot of their culture, and it's all copied from China! :shock: Oh, when it comes to fiction from movies and books, all the BS about katanas is the worst in my opinion! The whole 'cult of the katana', the fictional virtuous samurai warrior, and the whole Code of Bushido was all drawn from fictional stories by the Japanese governemnt to create a national identity because Japan had an identity crisis when they became modernised in the Meiji restoration period. Katanas chopping through machine gun barrels, the most powerful swords in the world, It's all a load of rubbish and many kids obsessed with anime/manga believe it all! Such is life...
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 5:24:51 GMT
You are 100% correct about the history part, glad to see someone finally reading history too. Shame that many Chinese still don't read it and still believe novels are real deal and video games are the truth to all things. LOL! Many and I mean MANY video games were out including online games, role play games.. and you can be Kwan Yu, Hung Ming and so on.. even Hung Ming can shoot out dragonball blast kinda crap! holy man! It's even more fascinating than magic! hahahaha! Now this comes out of some modern day kids "Well, it's fun how people in the old days are so powerful, we human already deteriorated nowadays.. and lost many of our power and abilities.."
hahahahaha!
Yeah those katana crap..I know and that is also why many people are drawn to katana too, instead of Chinese swords. Basically we need some actors who can do a good job in Chinese HEAVY swords and put that on the cinema, then people might like to watch that more. I love how some China video actually made the han dynasty settings battle look better with real han style weapons, halberds, swords, etc,.. I love those heavy blades more than the crappy filmsy ones! They look more like weapons on the stage!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 8:13:01 GMT
I too really like the historically accurate Chinese films that show the military weapons they really did use at the time.
|
|
|
Post by Nox on Nov 18, 2012 8:46:07 GMT
Ouch you guys are being a little harsh on the katana. I will admit it is true that there are many of those anime/japanese culture obsessed people that really overhype the Katana, but on the other hand you have fans of the katana that see the sword for what it really is. you have to admit the katana is a very practical and versatile sword. I think that helps it's popularity alot also, not to mention it is a very iconic weapon, most people know what a katana is, though most won't know what a jian,jin,gim,geem is. the many names and pronunciations of the chinese straight sword doesn't help it to be as iconic as the katana either, not to mention the overall aesthetics just aren't as pleasing to most as the katana. The katana is one of those swords that is right in the middle, not to long, not to heavy, not to light, And as far as appearance goes the katana is not overly ornate or overly simple, it's balanced, where with most Jian they are very ornate,ornamental and flashy. I can tell you many sword beginners find the katana the most comfortable and easiest to handle over a Jian, becasue the balance, the length, the two hand grip, the single edge blade. A jian is mainly a single hand weapon built more for precision rather than cutting power like a Katana, therefore a little more difficult to handle to the average person.
I think the Jian is getting more recognition though, in the last few years there have been some pretty decent production Jian put out on the market, hopefully we will see more in the future from other makers rather than just hanwei and cold steel, maybe even in the SBG custom shop in the future since the owner went and visited longquan recently, I think he is mainly a katana guy but I get the feeling he knows there are those of us out there that want some good chinese swords also.
I would be interested in hearing the opinions of some of katana users of this forum on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 9:02:05 GMT
Hahaha.. well yes I do agree, a sword / jian / gim is harder to master for any beginners because basically people can go straight into katana and learn it from zero-knowledge on any martial art form. Like you can learn nothing but just katana and you can get good at it too.
Chinese sword is different, you MUST start from a form of kungfu, or I should say a style or lineage of kungfu and let the lineage teach you their sword art and styles. There are many what we call foundational training before you even can touch a sword and call yourself a swordsman. These include the wrist , arm and body conditioning. Just like in many kungfu styles, just learning the techniques is useless because you are just doing your flowery moves but with no real power in it and so they can't be applied in real life, even you get it right, it's not going to work. Same to jian as well, you MUSt possess a different kind of power in your body in order to even use that weapon for real. That is why Chinese sword is not easy to learn. Especially if you are in taichi styles sword, you are basically really just doing your "dance' instead of learning what real sword art is about. Seriously most tai chi master don't even know how to fight with a blade, it's a truth that many don't want to accept. Yeah you do tai chi sword form, now how to use them in combat? Let all BS begins..I was a victim before and that is why I shatter my own fantasizing crap later on and get into the real thing. hahaha!
It's hard! I do agree! In the past, there is a saying... You start with the fist and practice it everyday for the rest of your life.. then you can master the art of a single blade broadsword (dao) in 100 days, you can master the spears in 1000 days and the sword for 10000 days... it's a metaphor, but you get the idea of which one is hardest to master and learn. That's why to Chinese martial artist, a single edge weapon like a katana is really not hard to learn, we can pickup a katana and use it with ease too, even with a single hand, but with spears and jian, it's totally different world.
I do respect that art of katana though, not saying it's rubbish or anything, just that as a Chinese martial artist, I favor jian more for personal preference. Btw, did you see that guy chopping airsoft BBs on youtube? That guy with the katana is insane man, haha! I don't doubt that kind of alien exist in jian too! (not me!)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 4:36:02 GMT
I have to admit, I'm a JSA katana guy who just started learning CMA recently! I don't have a problem with katana either, just with the nonsense and mythology around them. I already own ten Japanese style swords/blades - katana/wakizashi/tanto/nagamaki/naginata but after a lot of study and research I'm learning to appreciate Chinese weapons - a lot. Mak is right, it takes a lot of foundation training in the Chinese arts before you even touch a sword, I know it will take me at least a year or more of taiji training before any sword work. I'll continue my JSA training in the meantime. The Japanese styles are very 'yang' - so kenjutsu employs aggressive powerful cuts and countercuts, the two handed sword generates a lot of power, but the Japnese styles are mainly big, powerful movements, they don't have the refinement and precision of a jian, which doesn't try to cut a person in half, but accurately striles vital points with surgical precision. Katana is more like a two handed dao without the circular movemements, as Japanese styles are angular and hard in essence. It's only my opinion, but having practised Japanese empty hand martial artsin my younfger days and now learning Chinese ones, I believe there is a lot more depth, complexity and technique in the Chinese systems, the way they use the whole body to generate very powerful movements in very short motions, the importance of balance, the ecomomy of motion, there's a lot in it. maybe I'v just discovered the value of the internal systems, which rely on more than just brute strength...
|
|
Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
|
Post by Taran on Nov 19, 2012 5:35:17 GMT
But coming from Euro styles, the Jian isn't so bad. Much like a later period Roman or a Viking blade. The more elegant stuff takes more work, but coming at it from that angle, even the difficult stuff becomes quite functional somewhat easily. It's making it Look as good as it works that takes forever.
The worst part was adjusting to the different grip. Amazing how much difference thumb position makes.
On people knowing history: This isn't a purely modern problem. What is sad is that easy access to that history has not had an impact on how widespread the knoledge of that history is.
|
|
|
Post by Turok on Nov 19, 2012 5:56:43 GMT
I wouldn't recommend the Damascus Tai Chi sword for really anything except decoration to be honest. The Damascus Tai Chi doesn't have a proper tang, it's not very solidly built, and the blade is way too thin...I don't mean to sound too harsh but here is James Fang's pictures of the Damascus Tai Chi next to the Rodell Cutting sword in the review section. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Hanwei-SH2429-Chinese-Cutting-Sword.html, I've seen several accidents occur by people misusing SLOs before and it's all because of abusing something that is not designed to cut.
|
|