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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 15:52:42 GMT
Hello. I'm in the market to get these swords for my friends as their personal swords. Does anybody here have experience with these 2 pieces? Are they of any good? Also, I have been training students for quite some time. Entry level katana can easily be found from mainland China for extremely low price due to the lack of shipping charge required since I'm located in Hong Kong. They came with "quite" authentic handling and test cutting functionality. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for European swords since there's no such a market in the mainland. The forges there doesn't make entry level European swords. I don't like Huanuo (Cold Steel) and Hanwei swords either since they're too blade heavy. They don't really know how to make European swords in my opinion. They were used to the distal taper ratio of Asian swords, which is a lot less than the ratio of European swords generally. So I'm also in the market for an entry level European bastard/longsword that has authentic look, handling characteristic and test cutting ability. I would like the sword to be able to represent how "real" European sword handles because as you probably know, many people have no idea of how light and fast an European sword could be. Hence, I don't want them to get a false impression through my teaching tools. I'm spearheading the correct image of European swords and swordsmanship here alone in Hong Kong.  Right now it seems Windlass 15th century longsword would be a good candidate as well. The weight, size, balance (I've heard from Kult of Athena that it's 5" down the blade) are all reasonable. Is my guess correct? I'm really new to the entry level European swords. I confess I had never thought I would eventually delve into this market but it's my wish to equip my European style swordsmanship students with good quality European swords, both as training tools and as their personal swords. Due to their low income nature and youthness, they don't have the patience to save up for a more expensive one like I did (eg. I saved up for 3 years for an Albion Brescia Spadona). They also need something in hand to practice urgently. After all, substituting with a katana just wouldn't work very well since the grips between the two styles are quite different. Thanks a lot. |
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 15:55:56 GMT
I have no experience with either but I DO know who does.
Jason from arms of valour (trueswordsman), a regular poster here just did some tests with the 15th c. longsword.
Also, jpfraco, another regular here, did a review about the windlass scimitar on the main sbg site. You can ask both of these people any questions that you have!
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 16:01:01 GMT
Another thing: What do you want out of the longsword? Will it be used for sparring, dry handling, or with cutting medium? If it is for fighting with others, safty would be a key issue (I assume you already know this looking at your company ;D ). I cannot recommend any of windlass' products, simply because they are meant to be real swords with a semi-dulled edge and certainly NOT effective wasters. ALso, the waay wasters function are not the same as a true sword. If you are in the market for wasters and can afford a bit of a monotary sacrifice, Arms and armor's fechterspeil/fechtbuch may be interesting (www.armor.com). Albion also has a very nice blunt called the liechtenauer (www.albion-swords.com). all three of these have recieved amazing acclamation from their users.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 16:04:22 GMT
Thanks a lot Rammstein. I checked the scimitar review and it seems to be very good. My friend who enjoys Persian sword and can't find one easily, will be EXTREMELY pleased! Now, hopefully Jason from Arms of Valor may chime in about the 15th century longsword. Heck, if it's good, I may get one as teaching tools for all my students and as my beater since my personal sword from Tinker also feature side rings just like that. HEHEHE Here's a photo of me and my sword.    My sparring sword on the left, my personal sword on the right. Both share the same size, weight and balance. I have no experience with either but I DO know who does. Jason from arms of valour (trueswordsman), a regular poster here just did some tests with the 15th c. longsword. Also, jpfraco, another regular here, did a review about the windlass scimitar on the main sbg site. You can ask both of these people any questions that you have! |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 16:06:06 GMT
Both the scimitar and the longsword will be used for solo practice in form and test cutting. Not for contact sparring. They will be treated as real swords were. Price is a hugh consideration.  Another thing: What do you want out of the longsword? Will it be used for sparring, dry handling, or with cutting medium? If it is for fighting with others, safty would be a key issue (I assume you already know this looking at your company ;D ). I cannot recommend any of windlass' products, simply because they are meant to be real swords with a semi-dulled edge and certainly NOT effective wasters. ALso, the waay wasters function are not the same as a true sword. If you are in the market for wasters and can afford a bit of a monotary sacrifice, Arms and armor's fechterspeil/fechtbuch may be interesting (www.armor.com). Albion also has a very nice blunt called the liechtenauer (www.albion-swords.com). all three of these have recieved amazing acclamation from their users. |
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 16:12:16 GMT
very nice! If you'd like, I'll go look around a bit to see if I can find someother middle eastern weapons for sale. I know cold steel has one, but it seems to be the exact same thing as windlass' with a few hundred more dollars price tag. I see you have a tinker  ! You certainly do have my envy, lancelotchan ;D! Tinker makes some amazingly great swords, its nice to see that you like his work! You may also want to check out some other windlass longswords. Their typical "longsword" is reputed to have a very stiff blade, which is something that many other windlass swords sadly lack, and is a great buy for the price tag from what I hear. Just thought it would be good to show you some other swords |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 16:16:23 GMT
I performed a review and some test cutting with the Windlass 15th Century Sword not all that long ago. I did find it slightly tip heavy and the grip to be very narrow. The other draw back was the screw on pommel. You can read more about it at www.swordsofvalor.com/cuttingtests.html |
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 16:17:18 GMT
Thanks for chiming, in trueswordsman!
Here is also the thread about the reviews for a bit more info.
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=1165284557&page=1
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 16:28:34 GMT
Thank you guys. Men, you all are so helpful. My friend would also like to find Indian Khanda sword. Yes, my first personal sword that made me happy was from Tinker. It was some years ago. Then I bought an Albion. Albion is great, but I've learned some unique qualities that only exists in Tinker's sword, such as durability . Thus I switched back to Tinker and became a loyal customer.  This was my first tinker sword. I sold it to a friend.    From Tinker's archive: Pictures courtesy of Lancelot Chan- this sword was manufactured shortly after the end of Tinkerblades Inc. and utilized some production components on an original blade. |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 16:42:33 GMT
Hello Jason, do you happen to have the POB info for the Windlass Longsword? What do you think about that piece? I performed a review and some test cutting with the Windlass 15th Century Sword not all that long ago. I did find it slightly tip heavy and the grip to be very narrow. The other draw back was the screw on pommel. You can read more about it at www.swordsofvalor.com/cuttingtests.html |
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 16:43:33 GMT
If I had a tinker I don't think I could ever part with it. That being said, I am getting my albion ritter, due to arrive thursday of next week (wee! the 16 week wait is over!) but anyway.... Here is a little something that may interest your friend: /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1167377819 and the site: www.ancientarms.biz/servlet/StoreFrontAlso, the pictures seem to be down for some reason but they were quite amazing. |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 16:51:41 GMT
Hi Rammstein, I've visited Ancient arms website before... do you think this company is reliable? I've never heard someone who had bought from them so I would like to hear some comments.
You're right. I kinda regretted that I sold the first tinker. Back then I thought every sword could go through pork arm without damage like it did and I was virtually broke after spending my savings for 3 years on Brescia Spadona. Albion swords are educative in historical sense. They teach the owner how they should be gripped and fought with in the past. Durability-wise, though, it's no match with the Tinker's. But then perhaps many historical swords would have suffered the same against the same kind of target. It's just that Tinker's are extremely tough and I was spoiled by my first tinker sword unknowingly.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 18, 2007 17:43:41 GMT
they do seem to be reputable but I have no first hand info. You may want to contact larry, the author of that post, about his impressions? About albion: I wouldn't say they are inferior at all. I'd say that albion swords are very durable. Your tinker seems to be dedicated more to the cut than the brescia (an obvious thrusting sword) is. Also, the brescai has been getting some mixed reviews from what I see and isn't known to be one of albion's best ones. Tinker, because of his custom work and the fact that no sword is alike, seems to be making masterpiece designs with all of his work. It could also be due to your personal preference of the "feel" of the sword more than anything else. Not that thats a bad thing I'll tell you my impressions on my ritter once I get it. |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 18:02:24 GMT
The spadona is a lot wider than my tinker sword (the one with side rings), and a lot thinner as well. It is 5 mm at base, 2 mm at tip. Being that, added with the fact that it is extremely sharp and 6 oz lighter than the tinker sword, it cuts a lot easier than the latter. However, thrusting is weaker.
The tinker sword is around 7 to 8 mm at base, 4mm at tip. So up to the COP portion its still as thick as the spadona's base.
Both swords are well balanced cut and thrust sword for unarmored use. I designed the Tinker sword after I obtained the spadona. Since the spadona was among the light and quick, I designed the Tinker one as the ultimate longsword in unarmored combat that could take on any kind of opposing weapons that might show up in unarmored dueling situation, including some polearms.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 18:13:57 GMT
the spadona is also in Albion's Museum line, which means everything - right down to the hardness of the blade is trying to be exactly mimicked. As was recently researched on www.myarmoury.com, hardness was inconsistent at best in historical european swords. I believe the Spadona to be about RC 48, yes? I agree that's a little soft to be cutting hard targets, but if that's what they found on the original it must've been quite the sword back then. here's a link to the article I mentioned: www.myarmoury.com/feature_bladehardness.html |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 19:12:05 GMT
The first one has HRC at edge like 55 and spine like 40. The replaced one has a consistent HRC at 50 to 55 everywhere. I agree that it's well within "acceptable range" in historical sense. I've read Craig's article in my armoury about the hardness of historical swords as well. I've no bad feeling about Albion anymore since I've seen more swords with thicker blade that got dulled faster than my spadona in cutting hard water bottles. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 19:14:09 GMT
I just got back fro measuring the POB on the Windlass Longsword. It was 7 inches exactly. As for my personal feelings about this sword..... I actually really like it. It feels good in my hands and dispite the POB handles fairly well. I am not sure if Windlass made the pommel historically accurate in size, but a larger pommel would have helped. Our version of this sword is as formidable weapon as the originals. The blade is highcarbon steel, tempered to a tough spring, the grip is ridged wood, wrapped with leather, and the pommel and guard are steel.www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=500794&Category_Code=WSC |
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 18, 2007 19:22:17 GMT
Thanks a lot. You're really helpful! In fact I'm quite surprised by the vast help I've got here, in speed, in quality and in quantity.
I wish your business a great success. You deserve every bit of praise!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 19:45:08 GMT
Thank you. Just spread the word that we are out here both SBG and AoV!
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Post by rammstein on Feb 19, 2007 20:48:16 GMT
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! You certainly do have my envy, lancelotchan ;D! Tinker makes some amazingly great swords, its nice to see that you like his work!
