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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 23:28:01 GMT
Hi guys My first post I was hoping you could help me with a question. I bought an Albion 13th Century Great sword from the Squire Line. It's my first sword, and although it has a fairly rustic look, I am quite happy with it. Here's a link to it from the Albion website: www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... rd-MII.htm As soon as it arrived, I tried to cut a 1.25 litre bottle filled with water. Unfortunately, despite how hard I hit the bottle, it just couldn't penetrate the plastic. I wacked it so hard the sword actually made a ringing noise. Is this normal? I thought that Albion swords came 'battle-ready'? I ordered it sharpened, and there is an edge, but it's not so sharp that if I ran my finger along the blade it could cut skin. Perhaps a 1.25 l isn't a good target for this type of sword? Is this normal for an Albion sword?
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Post by Brian Kunz on Sept 10, 2012 23:34:11 GMT
Battle-ready sharpness is subjective to opinion as to what you define as sharp 'enough'. It all depends on usage. Albion generally does not ship their swords sharp enough for bottle cutting. They ship sharp enough to be defined as historical sharpness.
Long story short, you need to refine the edge if you're going to cut bottles. You'll discover your edge would cut pumpkins and vegetables just fine.
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Post by MOK on Sept 11, 2012 6:58:24 GMT
I think it's more a matter of technique than edge. I've been cutting with a dozen swords for as many years, and I still bat away the first few (or many) bottles when I'm getting used to a new sword. A small plastic bottle is actually a fairly tricky target compared to a human, save that it won't fight back or make as huge a mess. Don't overpower it. Relax, concentrate on a smooth, quick swing all the way through the target and the power will take care of itself. It actually takes very little power to put a sword through a soda bottle, and if you try to force through with raw strength, you only end up making yourself tense and shaky, slowing yourself down and messing up your technique. To improve your technique, just practice a lot. Go repeatedly through the motions of a strike at full speed and in slow motion, with and without a target, until you get a feeling for how the sword moves and how you have to move to make it do what you want. The main issue is usually edge alignment, ie. getting the sharp edge to point exactly in the direction of the strike with the rest of the blade exactly in line behind it, and maintaining this all the way through the target; this is not as easy as it sounds, and getting it right makes the difference between batting and cutting.
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Post by mcapanelli on Sept 11, 2012 17:06:12 GMT
^^^^ What he said! I'd add that when you practice, go slow and watch not only your edge alignment, but where the sword wants to rotate as it moves through it's cutting arc. What happens with a lot of beginners (Myself included at one point) is they don't position their bodies properly and the sword ends up rotating before the target is struck. This will, in this case, just bat the bottle across the yard and not bite at all. So I suggest you place your bottle on the cutting stand, Start in Vom Tag on the right shoulder, and slowly move the sword from Vom Tag to a Langenort that is just off center line. Make sure you turn your hips with the cut. After that go from the same Vom tag to Nebenhut, paying attention to where the sword wants to roll over. After doing this for a bit start to sped it up. In no time at all you'll find that not only are you now used to you new sword, but your body will have learned the basics.
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Post by mcapanelli on Sept 18, 2012 1:50:54 GMT
Did you get it to cut your chosen medium?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 15:45:53 GMT
Hi thanks for the advice.
When I looked at the bottle afterwards, it did have slash indentations it's just that they did not penetrate the plastic. Also the sword made a weird ringing noise when I hit the bottle - was very strange. You certainly do not hear that in movies/tv.
Technique could be the problem, I haven't tried any fancy moves just had a slash at the bottle for a bit like I was swinging with a cricket bat. I note that you mentioned the German fencing school of sword fighting mcapanelli - is that appropriate for this type of sword? I'm new to all this but I thought the style you suggested was for 15th century 2 handers or bastard swords? This is a 13th century long sword essentially.
Anyways, I was thinking of sharpening it, but I want the job done properly. I've read on these forums how easy it is to destroy or damage a sword through sharpening yourself, but where I live there are no dedicated sword sharpeners. I wonder if it would be ok to take it to a knife sharpening service? or would they wreck it?
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Post by pinoyHerbalist on Sept 30, 2012 16:18:22 GMT
I think it's a lot to do with technique. Swinging a sword like a bat will knock away the bottle unless the sword has a razor sharp edge. And the ringing sound is because the sword is being struck by the target instead of slicing through the target. do some slow mo swings or swing fast and stop short of touching the bottle, to see if edge is aligned well with swing. Try to get a motion of slice the bottle instead of chop it.
Albion swords are well made, and the ones I've handled can make a sound like a bell when struck which sound quite beautiful as compared to clank clank. So I wouldn't worry that it makes a ringing noise. Practice to improve technique.
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Post by Dr. Whom on Sept 30, 2012 16:21:14 GMT
Yeah...I got the same problem with my one and most likely my last Albion sword. This sword has a sloppy secondary bevel like it was done on a machine and is not sharp at all. My hopes is that someone here offers a stone sharpening/polish service so I can put a proper edge on the sword or learn how to do it myself.
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Post by Cold Napalm on Oct 2, 2012 4:29:14 GMT
The squire line swords if sharpened will have a straight beveled edge as they are blunt swords that are sharpened really quickly on a belt (for 25 bucks of labor, what do you expect? You expect then to spend the hour or two for you edge?). The next gens do not...that is part of the huge price differencer between the two. Now, more then how sharp, the shape and angle of the edge is of more importance. A staight bevel will displace more mass as it goes through a target then an appleseed so for heavy objects (like say a bottle filled with water), a straight edge is worse then an apple seed. Also if you angle is too steep, it may feel sharp, but once again, it will displace more mass as it cuts through the target...not steep enough and you don't get the nice edge for focused energy. Anyways, the albion next gen edge is perfectly fine for bottle. All the swords I sharpen have an edge geometry based off my albion crecy and they slice bottle just fine. I like them at that sharpness because I can half sword them, they cut things just fine with proper technique and the edge is pretty durable and I don't have to constantly redo the edge. Kinda sounds like what you want a real sword edge to be like, no? In anycase, the squireline belt ground edge is not very good against bottle...or cutting in general. It's not very hard to touch up into a very good edge however. You can do it with a 2x4, a metal bar and some sand paper...although those harbor freight belt sander that sell for 40 bucks makes it a LOT easier...and if you have access to a 2X72 belt sander...well it's a cinch .
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