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Post by demize on Sept 10, 2012 21:54:28 GMT
I found this on Swords of the East: www.swordsoftheeast.com/tenryuda ... atana.aspx I've never bought a sword before, but this is Damascus steel so it seems like it'll be pretty good. I would like to know more before I purchase it though, like if it'll actually be any good. I really just want it for display, but I do want it to be functional. I'm picky that way. I don't need it to be able to cut anything strong (no metal or wood; paper, boxes, anything softer would be nice), but cutting weaker material and not getting bent out of shape is what I'm looking for. I know I can't get everything with a cheap sword, so I'll be happy if it's just an okay sword, but I really don't want something that's just a piece of crap.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 10, 2012 22:07:20 GMT
Hello friend, welcome to SBG.
If you are not going to be cutting anything harder than light boxes or bottles, then it should be okay. The problem with these lower cost "Damascus" blades is that they are either simply etched to look folded, folded using poor steel, or are subject to poor folding, thus potentially victim to flaws that could ruin the blade. The fittings are also not generally very good, though they should be at least adequate.
If you are not set the folded look, both Musashi and Munetoshi sell very decent DH katanas for a bit less than the one linked. The Munetoshi is available at Swordnarmory and is called the Jubei. The Musashi line is called the Shirakawa line, made of 1060 steel, and available many places, though the best would be Swordnarmory, Kult of Athena and True Swords.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 10, 2012 23:15:12 GMT
You said you wanted it to primarily be a display piece. In that case, I suggest not getting it. It has an ugly fade-out rounded termination that just ruins the sword's aesthetics. I'm getting two folded steel katanas from two separate eBay forges within the next couple of weeks without the stupid looking cheap-o grooves that most sub-$300 katanas come with. If they're really pretty in person, I'll let you know.
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Post by Judosailor on Sept 10, 2012 23:36:38 GMT
Demize, I own/have owned a couple Ten Ryu swords and sell a couple models on ebay, though not the one you are looking at. My experience with them has been nothing but positive so far. I have heard one story (on here) of a problem with the heat treat on one of their Damascus/folded blades (the Raijin folded kat). It was not the one you are looking at either, but I thought you might like to know.
Kuya, can expound on what you are talking about a bit? Perhaps post a picture or two for comparison?
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 11, 2012 0:20:12 GMT
Notice how the groove ends on that Ten Ryu Katana, it's rounded and it just "fades out." It's done by using a polishing machine that is a circular "cutter" type of thing, that is ground to where it ends and lifted off. Compare that to the slant and sharp groove termination on this Hua Wei katana. Dynasty Forge, most Munetoshi, and Hanwei (their termination is good, but has a more rounded slant) katanas with grooves have good termination, not the ugly cheap ones that most eBay forges have.
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Post by xdskiller on Sept 11, 2012 1:15:10 GMT
Will the "ugly cheap ones" affect how the katana performs, because I personally like the "ugly cheap ones", not sure why though just looks more naturlish to me.
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Post by Judosailor on Sept 11, 2012 1:20:33 GMT
Ah, you are talking about the bohi. Not sure I find it as ugly as you, but I definitely can see the difference you are talking about. Thanks for explaining.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 11, 2012 2:43:45 GMT
When you see a properly terminated bo-hi in person vs a cheap-o bo-hi, you'll see why it's not so great to have the cheap-o ones on a piece you want to proudly display. My beater KC 29-II has an ugly rounded fade bo-hi, but it's a beater. I only commented on the cheap-o bo-hi because the original poster wanted to use it for display. The most important thing is if the owner likes it better one way or the other. I was just giving advice based on both what I've learned (serious collectors and display-ers wouldn't display a cheap-o bo-hi) and my own personal taste (I like how the sharp termination matches the sharp ridges of the groove to the mune and shinogi as well as the slant/curve of the kissaki). I would suggest saving up another $25-50 and getting one of these cheap folded steel pieces instead of the Ten Ryu. Rob's FavoriteST-NihontoThey don't have the ugly cheap-o bo-hi, but if the original poster likes that style of bo-hi, they also sell them with that kind of bo-hi. Plus, he or she can choose a better matching/themed set of fittings. The Ten Ryu has really mismatched tsuba/fuchi/kashira. Look at the texture and style of the three pieces... they don't match at all. That would make for an ugly display piece.
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Post by ineffableone on Sept 11, 2012 4:09:26 GMT
A word about damascus steel. Unless your buying an authentic antique made from real damascus steel then it isn't actually damascus steel but pattern wielded steel. You see they lost the technique to make damascus steel, and have not actually found the technique for doing it again. A few smiths have come close and are getting pretty decent steel, but the damacus steel is still not able to be produced by modern smiths. So all you are getting is something with a pattern in it to look like damascus steel when buying a "damascus" steel sword. This was briefly mentioned by adrian jordan, but worth expounding on as this is much more important detail than the bo hi termination. While the termination of a bo hi can affect the visual appeal of a sword, this is a subjective thing, as one person has mentioned he likes what another thinks is ugly. Ten Ryu is not the greatest of katana makers, but also not the worst either. The recommendations adrian jordan gave are solid good ones, and they could even save you some money, which could be nice. Since you said you have never bought a sword before you might want to shop around a bit, read through the reviews on SBG, get to know different brands and vendors. There are some better quality katana out there for less than the one you linked to. The Ten Ryu does not look to be a piece of crap and Judosailor has mentioned he has owned some, giving the good and bad of that company. This being your first sword I would suggest the Musashi or Munetoshi, both are well respected for what they do and have a good long track record. They aren't perfect but of acceptable quality for the prices for them. Kuya's suggestion of ST-Nihonto is decent too, though I have only experience with their $300 range, their lower cost swords don't look too bad. Personally I would suggest staying away from lower cost pattern wielded ("Damascus") swords, or ones tinted funny colors, or overly ornate ones. These tend to be marketed towards inexperienced buyers and often sound good but end up being cheap junk. In the end though the most important part is that you are happy with your purchase. Since you plan to do minimal cutting and are looking for more a display piece, it opens up quite a bit of options for you. Take your time and look around, you might end up putting away a little extra $ while you look around and find your able to afford something a bit better quality. Good luck in your search, and welcome to SBG, hope you stick around and share a review of what ever sword you do end up getting.
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Post by demize on Sept 11, 2012 23:26:58 GMT
Thanks for the replies, everybody. I've learned a fair bit just reading through these posts.
I actually really like that first one you linked. I can also customize it, which is nice (although I doubt I'll be interested in that, I like it as is and choosing my own options would just make me conflicted), and even with a stand, it'll probably come to around the same I'd pay for the Ten Ryu at SotE. I live in Canada, so shipping is definitely a problem, and the eBay seller you linked has free shipping. It'll probably be a couple months until I can save up the money to buy anything, but I think it's good to look at the options now and decide what I want to get rather than just jump into it.
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Post by Dana C on Sept 15, 2012 20:13:42 GMT
Just a comment in passing. Folded steel is not Damascus. Damascus involves two or three different steels hammer welded and then folded to produce 256-512 layers. It may be twisted or the folds reversed to create patterns. Folded steel is in Japanese sword is one type of steel repeatedly folded. Most are folded 10 times or more creating 1024 layers or more. The pattern of Damascus is usually brought out by acid etching.
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Post by chrisperoni on Sept 15, 2012 22:20:06 GMT
what you're describing isn't damascus either. go back to page 1 and read ... ah heck, I'll just quote it:
-and in fact when you see what true damascus steel looks like it's nothing like pattern welded or folded. It's even a different colour from typical steel.
Google- it's an amazing thing if you use it...
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 15, 2012 23:11:17 GMT
I think it's weird that with our modern technology, knowledge, and ability to reverse-engineer things, that we haven't found a way to actually do "real Damascus." How did they just lose the way to make it? Did some conquering horde just kill every smith that knew how to make it and then burn every document detailing it? And haven't there been researchers and labs that have found a broken, or have broken and dissected, one and used it to figure it out? I just don't want to accept that some old guys with less knowledge and access to our modern tech/research capabilities can do some secret trick blade making that we can't. ( Plus... I want real affordable Damascus! )
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Post by ineffableone on Sept 16, 2012 0:05:22 GMT
Wootz steel is another steel modern smiths have had trouble recreating and was a lost type of steel, in fact it is thought that wootz steel is the precursor to damascus steel.
Recently smiths have produced steel that is if not quite wootz steel is pretty close and the secret of wootz steel has been basically rediscovered.
However new wootz steel is very expensive. 99.9% of what you see claimed to be wootz steel is not, like so called "damascus" steel most things claimed to be wootz steel is just pattern welded steel. The use of these old names is to bring up the mystic of these ancient wonder steels.
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