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Post by Svadilfari on Jul 31, 2012 5:15:46 GMT
OK, wanted, an opinion from those more knowledgable than myself. Could one of these possibly have been classified as a "messer" by those who customarily used messer's back in the days when they were a common side arm ? I realise that this is actually a German-made Argentinian model 1909 side arm, but to me, if fitted with a more traditional looking sheath, it could pass for what used to be used ? Attachments:
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Jul 31, 2012 6:09:13 GMT
HUm ... Good question ... Personnaly, I think this has the look of an early 20th century blade. It doesn't look like it was made a smith in a forge. Plus, it looks delicate compared to the messers that I saw. So, in the end, I don't think it could easily pass as a medieval messer unless you are dealing with people who don't know much about these weapons.
Just my two cents, who aren't worth much, because I'm no expert on that subject.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 31, 2012 6:18:43 GMT
Strictly speaking, "messer" by itself is just the German word for "knife", so by that factor alone, it is indeed a messer. Now, if we were talking langesmesser, which is generally what was used, I'm tempted to say maybe. It has the hilt construction I've seen on pretty much all messer (integrated pommel & grip slabs, though that's pretty much a quality of most knives), but, on the other hand, as Seb said, it looks rather delicate, not to mention short; most langesmessers I've seen for sale generally have about a 2' blade, give or take a few inches. This piece looks like the blade's no more than 12". That's just my take on it, though, so it's probably not worth much.
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Post by MOK on Jul 31, 2012 9:56:57 GMT
Yes, this would be called a "messer", just like we would call it a knife. 'Cos that's what it is. There are other, more specific terms that would also apply, both now and back then, but "messer" would be perfectly correct as a broad term.
Fun trivia - back in the day, there was a bit of a fight between the German knifesmiths' and swordsmiths' guilds over who could produce what sort of weapons. In the end, the knifesmiths got the exclusive rights to blades with a knife-like sandwich hilt with full tang, no matter the size, and swordsmiths the exclusive rights to swords with a, well, sword-like grip. So back then the distinction between messer and schwert was not only official, but SERIOUS BUSINESS.
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Post by Ceebs on Aug 1, 2012 5:13:50 GMT
From the angle of the picture I can't make out the characteristic Nagel so common on medieval Lang/Grosse Messers. It's probably too short too for using it in the context of the German system though.
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Post by K. Vander Linde on Aug 2, 2012 16:41:19 GMT
Ya if you could tell us the dimensions of it they could help with wether it could pass or not. The lengths of that type of 1909 veried from 12" to 26". If anything it would deffinetly pass as a Bauernwehr.
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