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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 30, 2012 1:02:53 GMT
*SHARPENING NEWB* (I would like some suggestions and tips. ) With a katana with a sharp, but not razor sharp, edge, I occasionally try to find a honing/sharping method without the use of expensive wetstones or an Accusharp. Most importantly, a method that would not screw up the blade geometry as much as possible. :shock: Until I cam across this very interesting video... First off, what instantly caught my eye was the description: "This video has been featured and recommended on Sword Buyers Guide as a tried and true way to bring back a razor's edge on your modern production katana."And my reaction was basically a mix of confusion and doubt... Technically, my questions for this method is: - Would you, the new and the experienced of SBG Forums, still recommend this method for a katana? Since I realized it was made at least 4 years ago... -If this is recommended, what brands of katana or price range of a katana would you say is not qualified for this method, as in it would be a "High-End Katana" (Hence I don't even know the meaning of "High-End" for swords, so help? :? ) -What tips/suggestions would you add with this method? To achieve the best result. -What are the chances that this would mess up the blade geometry? I can take a full customization with tedious tsukamaki, but me sharpening a blade!?! I will most likely have more questions on this matter, depending on how confused I am. Until then, Thank you. :mrgreen:
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Post by SullivanSwitch on Jul 30, 2012 3:05:48 GMT
I strop my sword. I keep a pretty thick edge-meat on mine, but I want to be as sharp as it can be. Now I modified my blade from a flat grind to an apple-seed, and I can't speak for all other sword types. But with stropping, the amount of material you are removing is so small, that I would imagine it would be a loooong time before you started to see any visual change. I do know from experience that you can strop both flat grind, and apple-seed. With the latter all I do is give it a tilt while pulling, the former I just keep it steady during the pull.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 30, 2012 4:31:52 GMT
So, when moving the sword on the leather surface, I should tilt so it would keep the same blade meat?
And I heard of the use of "Jeweler's Rouge" with leather in the video. Is the Jeweler's Rouge necessary? Are there also substitutes that are better? And where can I get the essential supplies?
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 30, 2012 4:39:00 GMT
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 30, 2012 4:42:22 GMT
check out the ebayer I just posted, he sells 4 different grit (colors) of compounds, "Jeweler's Rouge" is specifically the red compound, and typically used for softer metals. You want the white, black, or green compounds. Many people will load one side of a strop with one color then the other with another. Sort of like having a duel grit water stone but with a strop.
Others prefer the final strop to be loadless, just stropping against the leather.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 30, 2012 5:15:57 GMT
The deal on eBay sounds like the things I need but I'm quite expecting that I can get similar things for less... Like I quickly searched up "Jewelers Rouge" on google and ended up finding This: www.homedepot.com/buy/tools-hard ... BYX7mt5mSM Though I am not sure if it is suitable for stropping. Now all there is to get is leather... Or possibly there can be a cheaper version of a stropping kit?
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 30, 2012 5:26:25 GMT
That would be the red compound that is best suited for soft metals, not a high carbon steel sword. As I mentioned you want the green, black, or white compounds.
Try searching "stropping compound" rather than "Jewelers Rouge"
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Post by SullivanSwitch on Jul 30, 2012 12:47:44 GMT
If you are trying to keep it cheap, check your local thrift store/goodwill for a leather belt. That was where my first "strop" came from.
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jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
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Post by jhart06 on Jul 30, 2012 13:29:57 GMT
You can have it cheap, quick, or quality.. Pick 2/3... Often times trying to cut corners will sacrifice quality, no matter what people say. Better to do it right and get the good stuff first time around.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 30, 2012 13:43:37 GMT
Green - use the green. Jewelers "rouge" doesn't mean it has to be red. Green for sword stropping. Some call it a honing compound. Lee Valley sells a great version www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... at=1,43072 The fellow in the video is Morpheus / Randy - the Prez of UBC. His video is very useful. Stropping is more about making the very edge as sharp as possible, and not so much about removing material. This work is so fine it doesn't really change anything about the geometry, it just perfects the edge. All you need is the compound, a scrap piece of leather (I like to use the rough/nubuck kind), and a piece of wood to glue the leather too.
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jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
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Post by jhart06 on Jul 30, 2012 14:37:03 GMT
If you really, really need a stropping block, I've got scrap leather (dyed though) and wood XD Which is all it sounds like you need.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 30, 2012 15:05:12 GMT
I agree with Jhart.Better to get the good stuff.I went with some cheap rouge from Harbor Frieght and it was next to worthless.For some reason I have found that the less work the leather has had done(conditioning,dyeing,etc)the better it works.I started with an old belt,then tried one of my old leather carpenters belt pouches,it worked much better.A piece of rawhide from the craft shop was even better.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 30, 2012 15:41:04 GMT
Maybe the untreated leather can absorb more compound?
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Post by frankthebunny on Jul 30, 2012 17:13:41 GMT
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 30, 2012 19:01:48 GMT
SO, basically I need a strip of untreated leather screwed down on a block of wood, and some stropping compound that is not red....
That sounds easier than buying and selecting whetstones to me! Would this method be recommended for production katana Sub-$500? I want to know when the method can and cannot be used, so I won't ruin a blade...
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 30, 2012 19:14:10 GMT
If you screw it down then do so by wrapping over the sides of the wood and screw to the side so no metal is on the top side
I like to use a bit of a thicker piece and just krazy glue it down without having the glue soak through to the top side. edit/add- I glue the sides down while wrapping it over the top.
Sure- for a production blade sub $500 it's fine - you won't be devaluing it imho. For me what I end up with is the last few mm's of the edge along the length of the blade is very highly polished/reflective. To me it doesn't detract from any hamon or visual, but I guess some might not like that.
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Post by willhart on Jul 30, 2012 21:48:51 GMT
So here's my experience with stropping. I purchased a 4x4 wood block, and sanded it down to smooth it out and used rubber cement (school supplies aisle from walmart), and cut out a strip of leather ordered from here: www.dangerousthreadsinc.com/servlet/the-Leather-dsh--Natural%2C-Veg-Tan/CategoriesActually ordered it from their amazon store, it was pretty cheap, I think only $12 after shipping and handling and I still have a huge 1x1 foot square left. Anyways, I bought the cheap white jewelers rouge from ebay. I used it and it started instantly turning black, which meant it was taking metal off. But same with metal glo or other metal polish, they will all turn black because that's what the metal looks like sanded off. But I would only recommend doing this if you have a sword that is on the boarder of shaving hair sharp, this is much sharper than just paper cutting sharp. Unless you want to spend 4 hours trying to sharpen a sword, this is not the way I would go. You take off such a little amount of steel when you strope. I've tried the hand sandpaper route, but found that I don't trust my hands to sharpen this way, especially since it still takes hours to sharpen a sword at this rate, depending on how sharp it is. I went the the belt sander route and will never go back. I thought in the beginning the hand sanding/stroping would be fun and it is for a bit, but not 4+ hours per blade if it's not that sharp already. Those are just my thoughts. Hope it helps.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 31, 2012 2:53:36 GMT
While looking at the link on the eBay site ineffableone gave, I read the description and made me ask: Does the colors represent how fine or coarse the compounds are? If so, which ones are generally recommended for sharpening a sword? And I'm talking about 2 sided ones... And which side of the leather is usable?
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 31, 2012 3:41:37 GMT
From that ebay description
Both sides of the two sided strops, are usable and can be loaded with different grit compounds.
Not sure what the grits are on the stuff from the guy I linked to as when I had asked him, he said he did not know himself. He personally prefers the White and Black compounds for his personal sharpening uses.
A general guide to the different color compounds
RED is for soft metal use only like gold, copper, and silver and should not be used for carbon steel blades.
BLACK = Silicon carbide. Very hard, sharp, aggressive cutting. Available in wide grit range, from very coarse, down to medium/fine. Works fast at heavy metal removal, during early stages of sharpening.
WHITE = aluminum oxide. Also quite hard (not quite as hard as the black), not quite as sharp. Grit sizes usually smaller than SiC (black), in 3-10 micron ballpark. Works well in the finer stages of sharpening.
GREEN = chromium oxide. Slightly less hard than the other two, grit/grain size is very small (0.5 micron, on average). Due to the very small grit size, it's best suited for the final finishing stages.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 31, 2012 4:02:34 GMT
Okay, but just to conclude: All of the compounds won't screw up the geometry? I want to be careful, but also do the job right... Because I'm afraid the black compound will be the one that will take off a lot of metal. Probably White-Green would be suitable...
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