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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2012 19:23:33 GMT
Hello, first post! I had recently purchased a Hanwei/Tinker sharpened NONFULLERED bastard sword from KoA. Expecting to cut at least paper, it turned out to be really dull. I can run and pressure my finger along the blade and be fine. Therefore i must sharpen it myself. After some research I realized the blade has almost a 60degree secondary bevel. How should i approach this sharpening job with sandpaper? I did watch TomKs videos but im still uncertain about what angle should i grind since the secondary is so steep. What grits of sandpaper will i need? I tried with 400 grits and I must say the sword is really tough!
Would love some help and advice. Pictures of crosssection welcome!
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 11, 2012 20:33:15 GMT
With the secondary bevel you describe, I suggest starting with a new high-quality file to establish the edge geometry you desire. I had to sharpen my Hanwei Tinker longsword, which started out about like you describe your blade. I had to do a lot of file work to establish good geometry before the sand paper was of any use. But in the end, the edge turned out to be extremely functional and beautiful, and it's lasted for years.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jul 11, 2012 23:57:01 GMT
every tinker ive owned has had that same 60 degree butter knife edge, i suggest using a file as mike said, then once you establish proper geometry use tom ks method
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 2:34:11 GMT
thanks for the reply! Ima pick up a file right away. however what grits of sandpaper to use after that!?
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Jul 12, 2012 3:17:42 GMT
If you have a belt sander, then I suggest start at 200 and KEEP THE SWORD COOL WITH WATER! Otherwise you risk torquing the blade due to excessive heat and ruining the heat treat. Then repeat same process with 500, then 1000, then 3000. You can choose to go higher if you want but it's really for polishing/aesthetics.
Hope this helps!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 4:51:52 GMT
thanks! but sadly i dont have a belt sander. what if i do it by hand?
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Jul 12, 2012 4:57:55 GMT
Cheapest way is to get sandpaper. IMO the best way though is waterstones, but that costs $$... Sandpaper does a good job though!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 5:44:21 GMT
What grits of sandpaper do i need?
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Jul 12, 2012 6:34:44 GMT
The same as what I listed before. 200, 500, 1000, 3000. I would suggest getting a lot of 200 and 500, and maybe 10 sheets of 1000 grit and 5 sheets of 3000? I don't really use sandpaper so I couldn't say how much you have to get of each and I don't know how much work you have to put in... But that guideline should be fine to work with.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 14:18:26 GMT
thank you! i have tried using coarse 120 grit sandpaper and after quite a bit of grinding i did happen to scrap a little bit of metal off. But i will just stop and get a file soon and make it faster !
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jul 12, 2012 16:15:22 GMT
if you are finding that the sword is so hard that you cannot get steel off in a reasonable rate then you might want to try one of those two grit sharpening stones you can get cheap from places like walmart or the hardware store. use it like a file: sword clamped to the edge of a table or in a padded vise and draw the stone along the edge to get the shape you want. I have found occasional examples of production swords that are so hard files slid off them. it isn't common but it does happen. after the stone I'd use 220 grit unless your stone left lots of heavy scratches that even 220 can't hit, in which case you drop down a grade until you are getting the scratches out. then just step up one step at a time so after 220 comes 300-ish, then 400-ish, then 600-ish, and honestly I'd stop at either 400 or 600. you aren't trying to make a mirror nor reveal a hamon and a 400 to 600 grit polish can be very attractive and low maintenance.
some tips: never scrub in a back-and-forth manner. this is something I used to do and I think I say it is ok in my vids. I don't do it anymore for two reasons: 1. safety, if you get a back and forth motion set into a pattern and then slip off the tip you are going to pull your hand back right onto the point. Gus rammed a point all the way through his thumb this way last year. 2. it looks better. every time you stop your motion in one direction and start back in the other you will make little swirlies. you can't help it, that's how we are built. it is much better to start at one end and stroke to the other, or if you are doing diagonals start at the ridge and continue right off the edge. scrubbing usually happens in the final polishing stages that stroke length-wise down the blade since the bevels are too short to really allow it.
if you can get automotive sand paper that is wet or dry useable then put a little oil on your blade. your paper will last longer and you will get a better look.
I'd make the edge bevels only slightly steeper than the main bevels of the sword and blend them so that there's not an abrupt transition from one angle to the other. curves are good, corners are bad.
be careful, take your time, be patient, and have fun.
good luck, let us know how it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 17:48:32 GMT
wow, great to have a reply from the man Tomk himself! thanks for the tip. I have followed your method in the video and use 3 n 1 oil on the sword. I prepared myself sandpaprr from 120,220,400,1000 and 2000grit sandpaper and soon a file. I have tried with 120 grit sandpaper and successfully remove some metal so its definitely that hard, a file would certainly do the job! Being such a good sword guy you pretty much answer all the questions i was gonna ask! I didnt get 600 grit paper so is it ok if i go straight from 400 to 1000? I might need more work at 1000? thanks for the reply again ill definitely post my finished work!
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jul 12, 2012 18:21:22 GMT
you can go from 400 to 1000 sure but your result will be different than if you hit the in-between grits.the 1000 grit will do very little to change the texture of the 400 grit but it will make it shinier. to my way of thinking there's not much point in this but if you like the look that's reason enough to do it. if you do it and don't like it then all you have to do is go back over it once with the 400 and either leave it there or move up in smaller steps. if you want a mirror polish you really need to hit not only all the grits but you really need to work with your roughest grits a lot to make sure you have them as smooth and even as possible. when bringing a sword to a higher grit finish that you want to be really good there are a lot of times when you won't see a flaw or left over scratch until you get one or two grit levels above where it happened. then you have to go back to the coarser grit to get it out. the higher grit you want to take it too the more likely you will have to go back to a lower grit and repeat the steps in order to get that really fine and consistent finish. working in opposing directions at the coarser grits really help you see when you have all the scratches out but it is still easy to miss some.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 18:52:19 GMT
i see i guess ill have to really focus and be patient. and also wat do you mean by working in opposite direction with coarse grits?
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jul 12, 2012 19:25:32 GMT
when you work the bevels for sharpening do the first grit in passes like this \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ down the blade. then the next grit you go down the blade like this ////////////////////
this is assuming the blade is laying across your screen with its point on the right and the pommel on the left. as you start to cross the old marks with the new grit your scratch pattern will start to look like XXXXXX then you continue to work it until you only have /////// left. those occasional x marks show you where you have not erased your previous grit scratch pattern and you need to work that area some more.
that's what I'm talking about. a 220 grit scratch is very difficult to remove with 600 or 1000 grit (it will feel impossible) and will leave a flaw in your polish that the higher grits will only seem to make shiny and not remove. this is why it is so important to remove ALL of those 220 grit scratches with the 300-ish grit paper and also why it is important to remove all the 300-ish grit scratches with the 400 grit paper before you move up to 600 or so. this is also why 1000 grit will only really make your 400 grit finish shinier: because it cannot effectively remove the scratches from the 400 grit.
hope this helps and makes sense. ask any questions you have I'll do my best to answer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2012 21:30:13 GMT
thanks tom for the tips now i get it. Sry for the late reply. ill leave post on my progress!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 14:41:49 GMT
I need help! I have used sandpaper up to 220 grit even though the edge has micro-jagged spikes it could cut paper. now i went to 400grit and somehow made the edge really. however i wasnt to cut anything. Did i do something wrong?
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jul 15, 2012 17:32:13 GMT
often your edge will cut paper when it is at lower grit because it is jagged. this does not mean the edge is sharp, it tears not cuts. going up to 400 grit will smooth it out and make it not jagged but then it feels dull.
make sure you are stroking the paper from the center to the edge and off in a single stroke. never, ever move your paper from edge towards center or along the length of the blade at the edge because that will dull the edge.
you need to establish a wire or bur edge. the best way to do this is work on side very hard until you see a feathery little line for on the edge that is best seen from the side of the blade you were not working. then you work the other side to move the wire edge to the first side. once you have a wire edge that is consistent in size and even all along the edge you can move up to the next grit. eventually you will work the wire edge off with your finest grit and then your edge will be really sharp.
good luck and keep at it. sometimes, you may not be hitting the edge. watch your scratch pattern and make sure you are getting all the way to the edge.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 18:45:52 GMT
so im not supposed to test my sword cut before i finish sharpening? Becuz that will scrap off the bur?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 19:47:29 GMT
think i got the hang of it now. things going well so far. I made a big mistake being impatient..
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