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Post by TheNewDavout on Jul 3, 2012 0:35:09 GMT
Question for any resident Roman military experts, is there evidence for the use of spathas by Roman cavalry from the punic wars up to the battle of Actium? If so, was it only auxiliaries, or did any native Roman troops use them, and how did they vary from later spathas.
Semi-related note, is anyone besides Del Tin making a devoted Gladius Hispanosis, or, what would be a good estimate or dimensions/historical example to work from were one to try to find a custom one.
Gratias tibi ago,
SPQR
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Post by CivilSavage on Jul 3, 2012 3:01:34 GMT
No spatha until probably the 1st cent. AD and definitely not during the Punic Wars. Mostly Greek derived armaments almost up to the Marian reforms. The equites class were the cavalry arm of the early republic and used similar weapons and tactics as the Macedonian and Successor States cavalry.
The spatha is derived from the Gallic or La Tene longsword and until formalised Auxilia cavalry came into existence did the Empire create it's own version. This didn't happen antil after Augustus Caesar's reign.
To answer your second question there is no maker that supplies a true Gladius Hispaniensis. All are of later style and they fall under the dinstincitve blade types we all know so well. The DT203A is a disntinctive find that doesn't reflect the actual blade type found in the archaeological record as represented by DT's version.
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Post by TheNewDavout on Jul 3, 2012 4:27:34 GMT
Thanks, that's what I had guessed, considering the "Gallic" origin of the spatha, but wanted to check to see if we had evidence of the weapon being borrowed earlier in Roman history. From what I had read, mostly secondary sources going off of Polybius, gear of the punic wars, (after Scipio's actions in spain) did take on a non-greek flavor, with elements borrowed from the Celtiberians, ie, the Gladius hispaniensis. I may have to check back and see what Polybius says about the equetes gear of the same period.
Any idea of the measurements of a true Hispaniensis? any museums nice enough to have photos?
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Post by dwilson on Jul 4, 2012 0:48:21 GMT
If you can find a copy of Bishop and Coulston's "Roman Military Equipment", get one (they've been reprinted and I think are still available on Amazon). Also, a new book "Rome and the Sword" has some pretty good info too. Online, there's always Matthew Amt's Legio XX site, lots of good info here: www.larp.com/legioxx/gladius.htmlThe only dimensional information I have right offhand is that the hispaniensis was bit longer than the later versions of the gladius (ie the Mainz/Fulham/Pompeii versions). Length was from about 22 inches to 25 inches or more. Blades could have parallel edges or be slightly waisted, with a long pointy tip. As for a decent reproduction of a hispaniensis, the Valiant Armoury Actium is a fair interpretation of a 1st century BC sword (the fullers are questionable, otherwise it's not bad). And it's a good sword. If you can find one, that is.... |
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Post by TheNewDavout on Jul 4, 2012 3:41:37 GMT
I'll look into the books, also check if local university library has them or can get them on loan... I actually have the signature edition Actium, it's strong, nice package, balance is questionable, as is weight, part of the reason I wanted dimensions was to compare to it. Wikipedia lists some, but the I'll have to check the source. kinda on topic uam.academia.edu/FernandoQuesada ... om_Iberia_ discussion of relevant archaeology |
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Post by dwilson on Jul 4, 2012 5:44:39 GMT
Oh yeah, Deepeeka also makes a couple different examples of the Hispaniensis... just saying....
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Post by CivilSavage on Jul 7, 2012 0:34:35 GMT
Yes the Roman army realised after it's over a century long campaign in Spain that their traditional weaponry was not as effective as once thought. Other than the Gallic tribes that had crossed the Alpine mountains and settled in the Po River valley the Iberians were really the only other non-classical inspired army they had made war with. Even the armies of Carthage aped Greek influence in the form of phalanxes and the like. The iberians had a completely different weapon set as well as prosecution of war. The broad Iberian sword, the falcata, and the soliferrum had such an impact on the Republic that they began to adopt their enemies weapons. Primarily the gladius and the soliferrum.
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