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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 24, 2012 22:23:20 GMT
This is my first post, so please take that into consideration. I've been lurking on this board and reading what you guys have to say about swords and such for quite a while but I finally ran into a situation wherein I need some advice.
I've been a weapons enthusiast all my life, qualified "Expert" with various firearms on various courses incl. the Marine Corps, stuff like that. I'm even fairly adept with knives, spears, and axes but the one area I lacked to complete my martial repertoire was swords. So I set out to remedy that lack and I want to first thank you all because you've been a great help on the road to accomplishing that.
After much study and research the sword I decided on for my first is a Tinker Pearce Longsword (hereafter "TPL"). I got it from Kult of Athena and chose it because I wanted a weapon- not an art object that was also a weapon. My use for weapons weighs heavily towards the utilitarian over the aesthetic. I wanted a good hunk of steel that could take actual use, and that appears to be what I got with the TPL. I got it before the price increase hit so it wasn't even all that expensive considering what it is.
Actually I bought two first swords, the other being a Cold Steel hand and a half plastic training sword. Considering it wise advice not to practice with a sharp sword until a person is good at same with a blunt I got the training sword to work on forms. If your pictures are any indication I'm older than most of you and with age comes a tiny modicum of wisdom and experience, at least enough to heed sound advice when it's given.
So, I'm sure most of you are aware that the Tinker Pearce Longsword comes with an edge on it, but not much of one. Me, thinking along the lines of "what good is a real sword unless it's really sharp?" then plunged into a study of sword sharpening and again, you all have been very helpful.
I used the sandpaper method, which on a TPL is a lot of work because the blade comes with a brushed metal finish that runs parallel to the axis of the blade and it's quite deep. So I mostly got that out and polished the blade. I mean I really polished the blade with larger emphasis on the edge. When I got near what I understood to be the correct edge geometry I shaped the edge with honing steel and stones and polished the edge even more. I used a fine Arkansas stone to get a straight symmetrical edge. Then I used a series of 2 inch felt buffing wheels (small buffing wheels on a rotary tool, a Dremel) on it with increasingly fine grades of "rouge" or polishing compound, and I polished the living daylights out of that edge. Being careful with the rotary tool to always run the wheel OFF the edge and not on to it, I got as perfect a "lenticular" or "apple seed" edge on the blade as can be detected by the human eye with the aid of strong magnification.
It LOOKS very sharp which brings us to the conundrum.
It doesn't FEEL sharp. Meaning that when you run a finger along the edge it doesn't "bite" like you would expect a very sharp edge to do. In fact, though I'm scared to put any pressure on it, it feels very smooth and dull, BUT...
It will slice a sheet of paper from the edge like it wasn't even there. There is just a nice "hiss" sound and it goes straight through the paper like nothing. Held at an angle it will even put a bevel in the cut on the paper. Drop the paper and stab it as it falls and the blade goes right through it to the depth of the thrust. Where I live I can't really set up any mats or bottles to see how it does on those but thankfully I'll be moving in the next year sometime and that will change.
This thing appears to be bloody wicked sharp. But it doesn't FEEL sharp.
Now lacking experience with sword blades and this particular long edge geometry, what I'd really like to know is; "Is this normal for a proper edge and can I stop polishing the edge now or does it require further work because something isn't as it should be?" I'm aiming for a sturdy, working edge, like you would want if you were actually using the sword for combat (hey, you never know and it IS a weapon) so any input anyone can give me along these lines would be highly appreciated.
And again, thank you all for all the wonderful information you provide on this forum.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Jun 24, 2012 22:49:36 GMT
some food for thought, my tinker viking sword feels so dull i can drag it across my skin without cutting myself, but when used like a sword i successfully decapitated a dead Deer.with a singlke effortless stroke.
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Post by ineffableone on Jun 24, 2012 23:45:27 GMT
If your cutting paper like you say then the sword is sharp. As Saito pointed out looks and feel can be deceptive.
The convex appleseed edge is one that can easily fail to feel super sharp from touch but trust your eyes and tests. The edge is sharp and should be treated with respect and caution.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 0:16:30 GMT
The edge of a sword should not be as acute as the edge of a knife, because a lot more weight and heft is involved in the cutting which would dull an acute edge quickly. That is why a convex grind (axe grind) is often used to make the edge more obtuse. It probably won't feel quite as sharp as it is, using the touch-test.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jun 25, 2012 0:53:02 GMT
It's sharp. Skeaky sharp I call it. I've put edges like this on knives before. In fact I'm holding a knife right now (well, in between typing ) and it just doesn't feel sharp to the touch. I can run my finger gently across it and nothing happens. It kinda feels like a butter knife edge... but no way would I ever push my luck and try to exert pressure as I run across the edge with my finger-- I use this knife when I grill and I've seen what it does to a piece of meat. Feels like nothing when I cut through meat. I't's sneaky sharp. Try this- hold the sword point up and edge facing left & right (you're looking at the fuller)- place the flat of your fingernail against the edge so your finger is perpendicular to the blade edge and pointing right at you- pull your hand away so the blade edge scrapes your nail. Do you get a little bit of nail scraped against your finger? If you don;t like it then I would suggest stepping back to the point of sharpening/polishing before buffing with the dremel.
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 1:02:21 GMT
Thanks, I want the sword to be functional as a weapon and act on a target like a sword should.
As for "caution and respect" fear not. It gets all the caution and respect it deserves which is a LOT. Even before I sharpened it the tip was VERY pointy so I immediately set a policy for myself not to bare the blade with pets or kids in the room/vicinity. With the condition of this sword at the moment it would take only an instant of inattention for a pet or a kid to run themselves onto the blade several inches.
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 1:14:42 GMT
I tried your experiment and it took a little crescent out of the fingernail. Apparently it has more bite than is obvious from simply feeling the edge because it "bit" more fingernail than I expected it to. I can definitely feel the convex indentation left in the fingernail.
The "apple seed" profile is very pronounced and obvious, I don't think I got the angle too shallow for a sword. I'm assuming a very shallow angle would dull very quickly, while too steep an angle would generate greater resistance to the target being cut. I tried to keep all of that in mind while forming/shaping the edge. It came with a straight secondary bevel like a knife and from reading in here and other places I knew that wasn't what I really wanted.
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Post by chrisperoni on Jun 25, 2012 2:53:35 GMT
My TPL (well I guess we should be claling it HTPL since it's not a tinker custom longsword ) has a terrible bevel to each edge- uneven and steep. It's just a bare blade and I won't bother sharpening it until I eventually make a hilt for it. I know what you mean about the factory edge. I will likely start with a file to take off the steep bevel. What you did with yours sounds like a fantastic edge. You've got to go cut even just one bottle and tell us how it does. Sorry 'bout your nail, and kinda lol, I guess I should have said to watch the finger pressure
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 4:55:25 GMT
The nail is OK, nothing a couple seconds with a nail file didn't clean up.
You'll probably cringe when I tell you how I took the bevel back in the process of reforming the blade edge. I used an AccuSharp to strip away the metal. Very light pressure, evenly with long strokes for the entire length of the edge. I knew (from prior use with AccuSharps) not to put any pressure on it or it would be wavy and uneven. Then once I had the basic form, which would be a tertiary bevel (sort of like a hipped barn roof), I cleaned that up with stones and honing steels until I had the shape I was looking for. Then came the sandpaper treatment starting with 400 grit and working up to 2000 grit. Then stones and honing steels again to get the edge absolutely straight and symmetrical. Then more sandpaper and then polish. After which I touched the edge up again with a fine Arkansas stone and then polished it once more. It looks to me like, barring any major nicks in the blade from use, the stone and polish should bring it right back to where it is now with a minimum of fuss. Time will tell.
Sadly, right this moment cutting a bottle is kind of hard to do. I live in an apartment in Los Angeles and if I take this thing outside and pull it from the scabbard it is SURE to bring a SWAT team. These cowardly Kalifornians will be on the phone to the cops immediately and I just don't feel like explaining to them why I want to cut a water bottle to test a sword. My sister lives not too far away and she has a fairly sheltered back yard so when I get time I'll take it over there and give it a try on a couple bottles.
I just looked over at Kult of Athena and this sword is now selling for almost a hundred dollars more than I paid for it. I don't know why that is, either the sword has gotten popular, it was under-priced to begin with, or some other factor I'm not aware of. I bought it for a first sword because it had gotten very good reviews (after being sharpened) and it wasn't that expensive so I figured that if I messed it up or otherwise learned some lessons that in any way harmed it then I wouldn't be out that much. I also figured that with a little work and luck I could turn it into a nice weapon. I've done some wire-wrapping on the grip to add traction also and I'd have to say that for no more than I know about swords I came out OK. It is nice for once to actually get lucky on something like this price-wise also. I'm sure they won't have any trouble selling this sword at the current price so it's actually appreciated in value over what I paid for it.
Thank you and everyone else that helped explain things to me. It's a big help to have a group of folks like you to ask these questions of.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jun 25, 2012 7:15:43 GMT
I know exactly what you have going on. I have sharpened a few swords in my time and this is something I see often. what you have is a really, truly, sharp edge. the reason it doesn't have that bite may be partially due to angle but the thing that really does it is the fact that you buffed it with those little buffer wheels on your dremel. that has basically the same effect as the leather belt I use. if you were to magnify the edge of a blade with that "bite" you would find that it is pretty jagged with lots of little "teeth" sticking out as compared to your edge that has a much smoother line to it due to the much, much, finer grit of the polishing rouge you used. some people argue that the rough toothy edge is sharper because it saws its way through, but I don't buy that. do you do fine precision cutting work with a saw or a sharp knife? same thing really just exaggerated. the nail test you did confirms my belief 100%. that is one of the most telling feel tests you can do. congratulation you made your sword very sharp. since it is so sharp you might want to cut EMPTY bottles. no water mess with those so you can do them inside and not scare the neighbors. edge alignment and speed is trickier on empties but with an edge like that you should be able to get it with a little practice.
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Jun 25, 2012 16:03:41 GMT
I second Tom's opinion. It's because the edge of your sword is polished to such a high grade that it doesn't feel all that sharp, but in reality, it's just because there are very little micro burrs to grab at your skin when you run your thumb over it. I have also experienced the same thing when sharpening my swords and knives with traditional water stones. If you take a look at some of the forums on razor blade honing (as in old school straight shaving razors) then you will see guys who explain what effect different grade water stones have on a razor's edge and put up pictures from a microscope examining the razor's edge (they're that obsessed over an edge). I believe one person saw that at 6000 grit, the edge actually formed a micro-jagged edge so it has that bite you are talking about. However on higher grits, that micro-jagged edge gradually started to disappear and the edge didn't have that bite but it was still very sharp. Unfortunately, if I am correct, you only get hair splitting edges when you have those micro-jagged edges whereas a smoother edge has a finer feel to it overall. Another good thing about your polishing is that you probably closed up a majority of the pores in the steel so it won't oxidize as easily
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Post by Neil G. on Jun 25, 2012 17:48:25 GMT
Tom K. is the man around here when it comes to sharpening so you can probably trust his input in this regard.
I've found that using a slack belt sander the sword will often times feel sharper before I hit it with the leather strop than after - for the exact reasons he listed in his post (it's essentially de-burring the steel).
Another added advantage of getting a blade really and truly sharp using this method is that it's a level of sharpness that'll stick around for a while.
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Post by willhart on Jun 25, 2012 19:04:47 GMT
I know you didn't state this here, but I used TomK's sharpening method on my HT Longsword with a Belt Sander. This was the first time trying to sharpen off the secondary bevel. I used a file at first to try to lower the secondary bevel for an hour. I thought I stripped enough away and proceeded to sharpen it starting at 400 grit and moving to 1500 grit and finally a leather honing belt for another hour on a belt sander. It appeared to be sharp, it wouldn't cut paper as easially as you said, but I thought I had done a good job. I tried to cut pool noodles with it and bottles, but it was still horrible. With my Katana if I were to hold a pool noodle and cut it like a roll of cheese in my hand it would cut through it like it really was cheese and have little resistance. Now with the HT Longsword it would cut into it and then have a lot of resistance because the angle after the edge was way too steep. I took a jewelers loupe to it and noticed that I didn't really touch the edge during the hours of sharpening and the blade angle was still way too steep. I took a sharpie and marked the 2mm of the whole edge with it and borrowed my friends 160 norton blaze belt and proceeded to run it across it over and over. It took me 1 hours per side, 4 hours total, to actually remove the steep secondary bevel angle and actually take off the sharpie mark on the edge itself. Due to the steep angle, the belt sander wouldn't touch the cutting edge. Now I've tried to use 400 grit automotive sandpaper, and if I were to try to to this with hand sanding and a file, it would have taken me maybe 2 days to do this. I don't know maybe you guys have more weight than me or muscle, but considering it took me 4 hours with 120grit and using a belt sander at it, I don't know how you guys manage to hand sand like this. Here is a link to show the difference convex profiles. If you had something like my HT Longsword, it takes serious work with a low grit or file to reprofile it to a better edge, unless you want it to take on steel armor. forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1001
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 19:20:16 GMT
Thank you, TomK, it was actually your videos that gave me the foundational information I needed to understand sword sharpening. I don't have a belt sander so I improvised with my rotary tool for the final polish.
The Tinker Pearce Longsword comes "sharp" with a very rudimentary edge so it's quite a bit of monkey-business to get the thing where a sword should be, at least from what I understand to be "should be". I knew this from reviews on SBG and other places on the web before I bought this sword and was prepared to do some work on it before it ever arrived. A major factor in the decision to buy this particular sword was the fact that it could be a really great sword with the right kind of sharpening but still was relatively cheap (under $200) the way it came from the maker. It's not so cheap anymore, the price has gone up significantly.
I understand there is no one "magic formula" to accomplish any given thing, so while you have stated you don't use stones, I have a lot of experience with stones and honing steels so I put that experience to work getting the edge geometry where it should be. The steel is VERY hard on this sword, a regular file tends to skate rather than bite. A fine honing steel is just a file of sorts but the "teeth" are sharper and harder than a regular file so that does bite the sword steel. (I hope this hardness in the sword is a plus but until I actually get to cutting on things and find out if the steel nicks or chips a hope is all it will be.) The very first phase of shaping I used an AccuSharp with brand new cutters. This takes a bit of caution because if you put any pressure on the AccuSharp it will gouge and jump, very small gouges and jumps but they're there none-the-less, and those things can be very difficult to get out. The sanding phase took care of the tiny irregularities and using the AccuSharp very cautiously and sparingly sped up the process of transitioning from the gross knife bevel that comes on the blade to an "apple seed" edge.
What had me confused is that the more I honed and polished and the finer and brighter the edge got, the less it seemed to be sharp. I use tightly rolled tissue paper to clean the buffing compound off the blade after each session and it seemed the edge would barely slice the tissue, which makes this whole sharpening thing sort of counter-intuitive. So I decided to try slicing a sheet of typing paper and the blade would cut that into fine ribbons with almost no resistance. It was no problem at all to get 6-8 sliced "ribbons" out of a sheet of paper.
That was when I decided I'd best register on this forum and ask you guys what to expect from a properly honed blade. I had done a search on "sharp sword doesn't feel sharp" and variants but really didn't find much. I can't help but think there are a few sword newbies like me out there that achieved a good edge that didn't feel sharp and either gave up or reverted to more knife-like edges thinking they'd failed to create a proper edge.
Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post your videos and to answer my questions.
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 19:52:38 GMT
You're right on the "serious work" on this blade to achieve a proper convex edge. It was a lot of work but I cheated by using an AccuSharp to remove metal in the very first phase of the operation. I clamped the sword in a vise so that it was perfectly stable and rigid and used the AccuSharp with new cutters, then starting just at the end of the ricasso went down the blade in one long, smooth stroke and straight off the tip exerting very little pressure on the tool. Used in this manner the AccuSharp did not even touch the actual edge but stripped metal from the shoulder of the bevel. I didn't use the tool to the point where the bevel was reshaped to the angle of the cutters on the tool, I just used it to take metal off the shoulder of the bevel. This left me with the original bevel at the edge, a secondary bevel behind the edge, and then the sword bevel from the spine to that point, so there were 3 distinct angles on the blade, basically a tertiary bevel.
Then I cut the edges off of those bevels and shaped the edge to an "apple seed" shape with honing steels followed with soft then hard Arkansas stones. Now I had the basic shape I wanted so I transitioned to sand paper on a wooden block, moving the blade across the sand paper as per TomK's videos. This brought the edge to where I wanted it, then I touched it up again with stones to get it absolutely straight and symmetrical. Then I polished it with the 2 inch felt wheels on the rotary tool. The advantage of the felt buffing wheels was that the wheel will, when held at the proper angle, shape itself to the edge and polish all the way across all the previous work and off of the edge. You have to be VERY careful doing that or you will dull the edge rather than sharpen it. I would imagine that would give you a very shiny but dull edge, the wheel rotation has to be angled to come OFF the blade not onto it, which would dull the blade and shred the wheel.
What I was looking to accomplish is to speed up the process of getting the proper geometry and honing the real edge, not just the shoulder of the real edge. You are absolutely correct that with this sword it is very easy to think you're working the edge when you are not really touching it at all. This is because the blade is quite sturdy and the factory edge is very steep. While my intention was to speed up the process it still took a good 8-10 hours of work to get it to the point it's at right now so sped up or not, it's still not a trivial undertaking.
Thanks for the link to the graphics on edge geometry.
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Post by William Swiger on Jun 25, 2012 20:05:09 GMT
Here is a post Angus Trim made on a couple of forums back in 2004:
Sharpness on swords is a subject that is much debated, and has recently been debated on this site and on another site.
MY view on sharpness for swords is it should vary from sword type to sword type {depending on blade mass and sword mission}, be able to do what a sword's edge should do, and be relatively durable, ie should cut quite a bit before being sharpened again, though not necessarily being able to deal with lots of abuse.
A greatsword should have really durable edges. Surviving contact with "armor" should likely have a higher priority than cutting soft targets.
On the other hand, a bastard sword, a longsword, or a riding sword meant for period self defense/ dueling should have an edge quite capable of dealing with lighter targets.......
"Razor" sharp is a meaningless term. As I've seen it applied to swords it can mean anything from "stupid" sharp, to relatively blunt {one major catalog vendor used to use "razor" sharp to describe the secondary bevel they applied to their swords, secondary bevel having an included angle of 60 degrees}.
"Stupid" sharp is so sharp that the edge is actually dangerous. The edge is a very good cutting edge, but is not sustainable and will need lots of maintenance.......
"Paper" sharp is still real sharp, sharp enough to do everything "Stupid" sharp will do when the sword is used as a sword, but will also cut paper, the paper dragged across the edge......
"Sword" sharp won't cut paper reliably the way "Paper" sharp will. However, "Sword" sharp will do everything that paper sharp will cutting, and is far more sustainable.
Last nite after Restita DeJesus broke Dave Stokes record on the 2L bottles, we set up several 2L bottles on the table. The AT1593 cut 7 of them easily and cleanly. The edges of the sword are not "paper" sharp, but they are plenty sharp for a sword, and they won't need much maintenance as long as they aren't abused.
I recently read a thread where one of our foremost swordsmiths said that fingering an edge will dull it. I was a little stunned at that at the time, but later concluded it has to do with the type of edge applied to the sword. I suppose its possible that "stupid" sharp, and "paper" sharp could be easily damaged that way with one's acids and / or oils.
However, "sword" sharp doesn't seem that vulnerable to fingering, or even to a certain amount of corrosion. My judgement is testing the sharpness with a finger will not hurt the edge as long as the sword is cleaned off and oiled reasonably soon afterwards...
I recently patina'd a blade, that was sword sharp. It is still sword sharp, even with the patina........
Sword sharp..... sharp enough for the sword to do its mission, and sustainable enough that it won't need an overabundance of maintenance.......
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 20:26:36 GMT
I have noticed that the carrier for the abrasive in the polishing compound must be some sort of wax. When I wipe the blade with an oily cloth the oil beads and fogs rather than lay in a smooth layer on the metal. Also I can see a very slight sheen that is easily buffed with a cloth, leaving a finish with tiny streaks like when you wax a car.
Which concerns me a little about corrosion. The wax is most likely sealing the pores in the metal and as you say, polishing also closes those pores. But I'm wondering if moisture could have been sealed against the metal under the waxy abrasive carrier.
My thinking was that this process would take the metal down to a very clean, unprotected state and that immediate oiling would be absolutely essential to prevent corrosion. I'm also concerned with the degree of polish of the edge that micro-corrosion would dull the blade.
So I'm conflicted about whether I should chemically strip the waxy residue left by the polishing compound in order to get oil into the blade or leave it on to protect the steel. If it's protecting the steel (and incidentally providing a more friction-less surface for cutting) then I don't really want to strip it off. But if it's not protecting the steel then I really should strip it and oil the blade. Even using a chemical solvent to strip the waxy residue probably won't get all of it out of the pores of the metal, which is yet another consideration. I'm sure that medieval smiths didn't have this problem, they didn't have Dremel tools and polishing compounds like I used on this blade.
In any case, I'm still oiling the blade to protect it anywhere that the wax may insufficient. So now there's a layer of wax and a layer of oil on top of the wax. It's very dry where I live and the room this is being done in is air conditioned so it's even drier. It's not likely that corrosion of any kind will show up soon or in a quantity to be recognized without magnification with both wax and oil on the blade.
Do you or anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jun 25, 2012 22:54:22 GMT
Thanks, that all seems like very reasonable advice. While this blade will cut paper, my intention isn't to use it for that. I'd like to try a little "backyard cutting" just to practice my blade angle control and see what it will do but even that kind of cutting is a very secondary priority for me. Mostly the sword for me holds value as a real weapon and as such I want it to perform like a real weapon should.
Which probably means I've over sharpened it, considering the information you posted.
I don't intend to intentionally dull the edge, but knowing what you posted here will help when it comes time to sharpen again.
It would seem to be a matter of if one prefers the sword to cleave, like an axe, or slice, like a knife. I don't think it's real likely that I'm going to run into steel armored bad guys any time soon, so the object is to get the sword in shape to part whatever soft material (cloth, mats, pool noodles, flesh etc.) it is used against, while still being able to deal with harder materials (bamboo, bone, etc.) without damaging the blade unduly.
Considering the nature of this kind of steel, I can't think that any significant impact on hard material is going to leave the blade without some sort of memento from the encounter. Even before deciding to pursue swords as a weapon interest I would cringe when watching a movie and seeing a cinematic blade thrust into the ground, I can't believe anyone who cares about his blade would actually do that.
Many years ago I recall showing some neophyte my carefully honed single bevel Gerber MKI and crapping myself as he promptly flipped it over and tossed it into a nearby tree. I explained to him that I was not at all impressed with his knife throwing skills and in fact was very unfavorably unimpressed with his disregard for my personal property. I didn't say it that nicely either. I had a heck of a time getting the scratches and nicks out of the blade caused by just tree bark. I realize this isn't the same thing as a sword but I wouldn't use my sword to stab trees either ...
So, it's very helpful to know that to get the sword to perform as it should I don't have to have that paper cutting edge on it. One of the great things about forums like this and people like you is I can benefit from all of your knowledge without having to learn it myself from trial and error. Thank you, that is extremely helpful.
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Jun 25, 2012 23:05:13 GMT
I would think if you want to maintain your sword without the wax substance on it, then clean it off with 3000-5000 grit sandpaper and it should hold an even layer of oil. It may take some work, but any sword in my experience that has been sharpened/polished purely with waterstones will hold oil in an even sheen period.
If you use polishing compounds, then many of these, as you say, are wax-based, therefore it will start to repel water and oil, etc if enough is used. What you can do, is also do a light acid etch on the blade to take care of the wax, then clean it off with a metal polishing compound, and that should do the trick. Light cleaning with metal polishing compounds like Flitz/Mother's will not have wax seeping into the pores of the steel.
-Jake
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Post by CloaknDagr on Jul 2, 2012 5:43:00 GMT
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but I'm satisfied that my sword is sharp enough now
I can't take it outside here or someone will see it and call the cops, then they would probably take my sword away whether it's legal or illegal or they just plain wanted a sword to hang up in the squad bay. So I followed TomK's advice and tried slicing an empty bottle indoors. It took a few tries, I'm new at this and the angle of attack of the blade has to be just right, which took some practice. After I got that figured out it was cutting a bottle about half way through, so I increased the pitch of the attack thinking to cause the blade to "bite" into the bottle. At about 45 degrees it cuts the bottle clean through, it just make a kind of a "snick" sound and lops the bottle in half.
So, it's sharp. It doesn't FEEL sharp at all, but obviously it is very sharp.
Just for fun I shot a green astronomical laser at the edge straight on. It splits a laser beam and throws two semi-circles of light off of the blade. I wish I had a video camera to post that, it's pretty cool splitting a laser beam in half.
Thank you all very much for your help and advice. You guys are great.
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