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Post by thepepperskull on Jun 24, 2012 8:02:07 GMT
Hopefully someone understands the reference. :lol: I'm just posting this here to share an authentic old piece with everyone Chinese river pirate Jian, ca. 1800's. Classified as a Duan Jian, these are smaller sized Jian for close-ranged combat. This one, apparently, was used by pirates while raiding trade ships on the Yangtze River. Blade length: 21 inches Hilt length: 6 inches Grip Length (wooden portion): 3 inches Total length: 26.5 inches (The handguard spills over the blade as is the design for these) Blade thickness: Tapers from 5mm - 2.5mm handguard width: 2.75 inches wide Balance point: 7 inches from guard My first chinese piece. It's killed a lot of the preconceptions i had about Jian. I never expected them to be wushu whippy, but I had my assumptions all the same. Namely that it would be balanced closer to the guard. man, this thing is beefy and probably lopped off a few limbs in its day       Aside from what I've posted here, I know nothing about Jian. Anyone got any info to chime in? |
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jun 24, 2012 8:29:27 GMT
Cool!!
What interests me the most is the edge design. Do you know if the sword was reground or dulled in any way? At the base it seems to be a fairly steep secondary bevel which isn't typical for Jians... could you maybe take some close-ups of the upper half and tip section? You posted some distal tapers stats that help but maybe you could check how thin the blade is before both sides curve in to meet? If the final sharpness is ground on a thin body (let's say 1mm), one can get away with a fairly steep angle without hindering cutting ability.
I assume chinese pirates and their victims weren't wearing any armor at that time... this should allow for a fine edge.
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Post by thepepperskull on Jun 24, 2012 8:46:21 GMT
You're right when you see that it's been dulled/reground. The entire length of the blade, unfortunately, is dulled. The secondary bevel and the thickness of the dulled edge is on all sides and seems uniform, as well as the patina to go with it, so it's safe to say that the dulling of the edge was done long, long ago as well. not original to the piece, but done long ago nonetheless. It makes me wonder why. Maybe someone appropriated it at some point for forms practice? Who knows?
I am told by a fellow ehnographic arms collector that the original cross section of this Jian is a convex "appleseed" edge but with the central ridge you see in the pictures. Think of a diamond cross-section with lots of "niku", for lack of a Chinese term.
Once I get some more cash to spare in my sword budget (which won't be for a while, I'm sure most of you can empathize) I plan on getting this polished by Phillip Tom, and perhsps when I communicate with him I can inquire about the dulling of the blade and why it was done. Only after this discussion, however, will I decide on whether or not it would be culturally apporpriate to have it resharpened by Tom as well. if there is a significant cultural reason why the edge and tip are dull then i do not want to sharpen it, but if it oiginally was intended to be keen-edged, then I will have it sharpened to return it to its culturally-intended state.
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Post by SullivanSwitch on Jun 25, 2012 21:28:15 GMT
I really like it. I agree with your views on resharpening also.
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Post by Sir Tre on Jun 29, 2012 1:24:14 GMT
nearer to the guard a jian should be almost blunt (like forte kinda sorta but not really)... is is really secondary bevel or the blunted edge that i speak of? i would think others here like to know as well. very good looking piece.
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Post by thepepperskull on Jun 30, 2012 3:16:41 GMT
The secondary bevel is pretty uniform and has the same consistent dullness down to the tip. You can see where it used to be almost like the blunt-like forte near the guard where they couldn't reach it. There's not gradual transition from dull at the base to sharp at the tip. The dullness is very uniform.
I wonder if someone did this to use as a practice blade? Or perhaps it's another case of amateur collector trying to sharpen something. Either way I'm thrilled to have it and will defer to Philip Tom's expertise when I get the dough to have this polished traditionally.
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Post by Taiwandeutscher on Jun 30, 2012 8:04:58 GMT
Well, don't know if it is of any help, but similar swords, a pair of them, I have seen, with a language student's father who is an ordained Taoist priest professionally here in Taiwan.
Those swords were very heavy, and copper inlaid seven stars, were also totally dull, but had never been sharpend and only servered ceremonical perposes, especially in exorcism.
Could that be?
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