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Post by Dalaran1991 on Jun 12, 2012 22:40:28 GMT
I do know that most splintering/breaking problem can be caused by bad techniques. It's just that in my style Iwama Ryu (Aikido swordmanship, basically) the contact is light to medium, and emphasis is more on correct stance and strikes rather than actually hitting your partner. My partner is also a very skillful black belt, so we should be able to minimize that. The problem is, if you are unlucky enough to be holding a bad bokken, you could very well run into my near-death experience. After 20 minutes of light sparring my partner bokken sheared mine in half, the wood splintered forth and almost pierced my eyes. When we examined the wood, it was black and rotten all the way to the core... You can go to Amazon and see the customer images I just uploaded... Can't believe people give that crap a 4.5 stars... www.amazon.com/Natural-Wooden-Bo ... rds=bokken A good seller should be able to do some quality control, that's why I'm looking for one.
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Post by johnwalter on Jun 12, 2012 22:51:43 GMT
Kingfisher woodworks I say knows what they are doing,I dont own one,yet,but I have held one. Have you considered the Iwama style bokken,my sensei has one that he really likes for Aikido.
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Post by Krelian on Jun 13, 2012 1:15:09 GMT
Bokuto can be tricky to buy online since you don't get to inspect the grain and choose the exact one you get. In the past my dojo has ordered the standard Japanese white oak ones from SDK and now orders the standard white ones from e-bogu. We switched from SDK to e-bogu for the lower price. Comparatively, the SDK are a little bit slimmer with slightly more crisp lines defining the mune and shinogi. Ours see frequent light to medium contact in MJER kumitachi, occasional medium contact in MSR jo, and medium to heavy contact in OHIR kenjutsu. They tend to reliably last anywhere from 18-24 months under these conditions. Sometimes longer. We inspect them all on arrival and have only ever sent one e-bogu back from not having the right grain pattern. None of them have had an obvious defect like you described. Honestly, if you use it under qualified instruction and it was rotten inside I'd say that definitely constitutes a defect and would be very surprised if they weren't willing to replace it.
P.S.: It was from e-bogu right? How long ago did you purchase it? I just took a look their site and it looks like they're selling the regular white oak bokuto for $20. I remember them costing more so now I'm wondering if they've switched to an even cheaper (and possibly lower quality) model.
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Jun 13, 2012 3:46:33 GMT
No, it was from some seller on Amazon. Go to the link I put above for more details. Last time I bought a white oak bokken from amazon too, and it held up pretty well for one year. This time the product was from Amazon Prime, so I thought it should be at least the same quality with my last one. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong.
I've never bought from e-bogu but I don't intend to. They sell on Amazon too and the reviews were not that good.
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Post by johnwalter on Jun 13, 2012 12:23:01 GMT
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Post by stickem on Jun 13, 2012 12:38:13 GMT
Here's a breakdown of the different woods commonly used in bokken construction: www.aikiweb.com/weapons/goedkoop1.htmlAgain, since I have a background in FMA, I am most familiar with kamagong (what they call Coromondel Ebony) and highly recommend it. I have also had various tools (such as a hammer) with hickory handles that were tough as hell as well...
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Post by johnwalter on Jun 13, 2012 13:43:12 GMT
To add aljttle to.what stickem.says. There are several types of hickory and some arent really suitable for these applications.The species used by Kingfisher(according to their site) are specially chosen for MA contact weapons.It should actually be above tool handle grade,since its a different application. Pretty much the same with "ironwoods".More than one species,so some will be better than others.
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Jun 15, 2012 17:28:41 GMT
I got my bokken, saya and jo today, all from Ninecircles USA. Their prices were good.
The weapons are actually of good quality, though I'm not much of an expert to say such things. The wood grain and surface feel really really smooth. Both weapons are very balanced. They are also a little bit too light IMO. Normally I like my bokken to be a tad heavy to help build the necessary muscle.
After a while of practice it feels really good. Except that the bokken fell out of the saya and the end of the tsuka hit the spiky ground of my backyard. The wood was actually chipped slightly after that contact!!! I'm a little bit worried if it will hold out under light contact sparring.
I do like the owner though. He knows his stuff very well, and also practices kenjutsu for 15 years. He was honest when I asked about the origin of the "japanese white oak". He said that it's indeed white oak, but they are fast grown in southern japan instead of the good, solid white oak of northern japan which has all been cut down for use in construction.
Can anyone give me instructions on oiling and maintaining my weapons? thanks
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Post by johnwalter on Jun 15, 2012 17:41:12 GMT
I dont do much at all to mine,I will occasionally wipe it with a little lynseed oil.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Jun 16, 2012 4:35:55 GMT
Mashuu BokutoThis is where I bought a pair of stout appalachian hickory bokken. They are tough and gorgeous! They stand up well to hard training.
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Post by masahiro560 on Jun 16, 2012 15:21:50 GMT
I bought mine from tozando Their bokkenshop site
It has a really nice feel to it and feels more natural. Also they got the grain on mine right~ I actually sleep beside it because that's how comfortable it is (Or it's just my paranoia) I also used to bring it to my classes after i was robbed on knife-point
Other than that I broke two kamagong bokkens~ and this bokken simply won't relent to the uhh Mishaps against the ceiling and floor (Although that can also be attributed to me hitting them less over time)
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normanno
Member
the warriors don't show their heart until the axe reveals it.
Posts: 147
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Post by normanno on Jun 18, 2012 8:37:16 GMT
Can someone explain me what is the correct grain pattern in a bokken? How can I recognize it?
Many thanks
Giuseppe
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Post by johnwalter on Jun 18, 2012 11:44:42 GMT
Depends on the type of wood really.But basically you want tight and fairly straight grain with no knots and no irregularities.
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normanno
Member
the warriors don't show their heart until the axe reveals it.
Posts: 147
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Post by normanno on Jun 19, 2012 8:06:18 GMT
Many thanks for your answer!
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Post by Krelian on Jun 19, 2012 8:29:27 GMT
Ideally the grain will run with the length of the item as well.
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normanno
Member
the warriors don't show their heart until the axe reveals it.
Posts: 147
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Post by normanno on Jun 19, 2012 13:44:54 GMT
thanks to you for the clarification
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Aug 16, 2012 4:55:10 GMT
Below is my review for the bokkens I bought at Ninecircles USA. I think they will be my only vendor for any wooden weapons. I bought 2 bokkens, a jo and a weapon bag with them. All very good quality and nicely priced.
The thing that sets this apart is that the vendor himself is a kenjutsu purist. He had been practicing in Japan for 16 years he told me, and the way he talked assured me that he was speaking the truth.
He did say that while they were japanese white oak, they were actually commercial white oak fast-grown, since the original white oak have been used for construction and far too expensive for weapons. I really admire such honesty.
"I practice Kenjutsu and have been looking for a good bokken for a while. I have come across all kinds of bokkens, many of which made me wonder why I'm still alive. They would splinter at light contact, have ugly curve or very bad balance. I almost gave up searching for a "standard" bokken and was about to spend 100$ on a custom made one.
I'm so lucky I found this site.
When I saw "white oak bokken" my cynicism immediately kicked in. At this price how can you expect a real japanese white oak bokken? And does this actually look as pretty as it is shown. Most importantly, would it survive half a swing.
So I contacted the vendor. He was very knowledgeable, courteous, and most importantly, honest with customers. The last one was the deal sealer for me, as it's hard these days to find a seller who actually cares about his customer. So I paid the $ and crossed my fingers.
This standard bokken was my 2nd purchase, after the Kukishinden one, which was identical saved that it had a longer handle.
It arrived in 2 days, wrapped and packaged carefully. I was really surprised at the quality. The curve was elegant, the balance was near-perfect with the Tsuba on, and the wood grain is very consistent. The wood has a very very smooth feel, and very solid. I was certain the moment I started doing some basic menuchi that this was a quality weapon. It handles very well, not feeling heavy or unwieldy at any part, and not wobbly like some shinai/polysteryl Cold Steel sword. I went through 2 hours of training with this and not feel any bad soreness at all.
Now the most important part: is it functional, or just for show/kata practice. I let my friend have my Kukishinden bokken, while I took this one. We went about sparring medium contact for an hour and a half. There were some points where we would smash the swords with lots of force to try some new applied katas. We came back with bruised fingers and sore arms, but the swords barely took any damage! There were small dents here and there, but that's to be expected.
Overall I was amazed and very happy with the purchase. I don't expect this to last a year, but it may well could. When it finally break I'll be more than happy to order several new ones.
The only thing I would like to know is if the swords have been oiled before being shipped though.
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Post by KentsOkay on Aug 16, 2012 5:46:25 GMT
Great thread! Tagging for later, closer read.
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Post by Google on Aug 16, 2012 17:27:10 GMT
I recommend yamato budogu (very good for kata and contact), and bokkenshop. you can get a bokken to your size there, plus wide selection of ryu-specific designs.
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