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Post by Dave Kelly on May 16, 2012 9:28:32 GMT
 As listed in the New Acquisitions thread I recently connected to this saber via ebay. The M1858 is third in a series of three saber modifications ( M1845, M1850. M1858 ) to the last true heavy cavalry saber of the Austrian cavalry. Basic stats: Saber is 43 inches long with a 36x1.25 single fullered blade. Weight is 2.5 lbs. PoB is 6 inches above the guard. In spite of the advanced PoB the weapon still feels balanced to the hand and light in maneuvering. Indicative of a highly tapered foible blade. These swords have been very popular with collectors, and fetch a premium price on ebay. Other auction houses tend to be a bit more realistic in pricing. Still examples range in value from 500-1400 depending on condition and makers marks. (There is a current bid war for an erroneously posted 1845, that is actually an 1858 with a trashed grip, whose last bid was 1,045.00 :shock: )    While their continuance was vehemently defended by the heavy cavalry advocates the saber had a number of mechanical problems. Hilt construction was weak. Under hard usage the cast iron baskets would break loose from the blade. Grip retention under loads was also a problem. The 1858 fixed these with a reinforced girth for the guard (kapsel), and a thicker grip. Too late, as a universal service cavalry saber was accepted by 1861.  Just a candy shot of 4 period heavy sabers togther. L to R is the Austrian M1858, an Ames US M1840, a WEI version Brit M1853, and an Italian M1832/1860 Dragoon |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 4, 2018 17:58:41 GMT
So what would you call a sabre with this hilt, but the flat sided/fuller on one side blade? I had thought M1861, but apparently they have different funky looking hilts.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 4, 2018 18:55:12 GMT
So what would you call a sabre with this hilt, but the flat sided/fuller on one side blade? I had thought M1861, but apparently they have different funky looking hilts. The 1861 and 1869 all branches cavalry sabers had inside blades that were flat inside and fullered outside. That statement isn't true in context to lefties. The majority of Austrian Cav sabers are internationally unique, as they were made with ambidextrous hilts. So a lefty would have the flat outside. As to 1845-58 HCs the enlisted guard plate was solid ('cept for rain holes and a sword knot slit(s). Officer guards were caste with floral or national engravings; a common Austrian officer saber practice adopted by the British. The 45 and 50 guard plates were cast iron. They had a very bad failure rate because of cracking at the tang mounting point. The 1858 reinforced this point and appeared to addressed the problem. But the War Ministry was already fed up with the issue and a replacement was designed and ready no sooner than the 1858 was. Lastly, how do you keep finding this ****? I thought I blew it all up! |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 4, 2018 19:43:43 GMT
Sifting through the trash that is Google images and Pinterest, one finds old treasures  Must've been part of the bomb squad. So it would be an 1869, by my understanding? |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 4, 2018 19:58:10 GMT
Sifting through the trash that is Google images and Pinterest, one finds old treasures :P Must've been part of the bomb squad. So it would be an 1869, by my understanding? Pronouns can be so dangerous. The Austrians introduced cav sabers with one side ground flat for both the 1861 and 1869 series, Yes. s747.photobucket.com/user/kelly1863/media/Austrian1869CavSabers001.jpg.html?sort=3&o=246Don't have a complete photo workup for these, but here are the 1869 Off and Enl Austrian sabers. The other side of the blades are FLAT. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 4, 2018 20:21:21 GMT
Sifting through the trash that is Google images and Pinterest, one finds old treasures Must've been part of the bomb squad. So it would be an 1869, by my understanding? Pronouns can be so dangerous. The Austrians introduced cav sabers with one side ground flat for both the 1861 and 1869 series, Yes. s747.photobucket.com/user/kelly1863/media/Austrian1869CavSabers001.jpg.html?sort=3&o=246Don't have a complete photo workup for these, but here are the 1869 Off and Enl Austrian sabers. The other side of the blades are FLAT. Agh okay. This makes me doubt the 1869 Officers I sold a while ago was actually an 1869. Now seems more likely it was the ealier iteration. Drats. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 4, 2018 22:42:19 GMT
Without pics, hard to tell. Austrian Army had 3 or four level of forces and each had mods of their own. Territoreal army, Hungarian Forces, and some militias.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 4, 2018 23:17:43 GMT
Without pics, hard to tell. Austrian Army had 3 or four level of forces and each had mods of their own. Territoreal army, Hungarian Forces, and some militias. Here's a link to the album if you want to take a look-see. imgur.com/a/onFu9I've always been interested in the Austrian military force but never really delved into it. Might just do that though, been looking for a used "With drawn sword" as I really enjoy the Austro-Hungarian arms. Hadn't known there was so much variance in branches. |
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Feb 5, 2018 1:51:21 GMT
was that the piece i have?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 5, 2018 1:52:54 GMT
was that the piece i have? Isn't the Austrian you have an 1861 inf? Also if you ever want to sell of the Argentine I sold you a while back let me know. Gotta start buying back my mistake sales lol. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 5, 2018 2:36:51 GMT
Consulting my copy of With Drawn Sword, found out something new. While there is not supposed to be an official Light Cavalry Version of the Officer's 1869 Saber, there is. Somewhat rare. The guard is not as wide as the standard model. Period Austrian Sabers came with a red woolen sword washer stuffed under the shoulders of the blade. One reason your's is loose: it's gone.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 5, 2018 2:43:35 GMT
Consulting my copy of With Drawn Sword, found out something new. While there is not supposed to be an official Light Cavalry Version of the Officer's 1869 Saber, there is. Somewhat rare. The guard is not as wide as the standard model. Period Austrian Sabers came with a red woolen sword washer stuffed under the shoulders of the blade. One reason your's is loose: it's gone. That would explain the large gap in between the shoulders and guard. Despite being slightly rare, it sure didn't fetch much. It wasn't a very impressive sabre to me, it suffered from a thin straight grip that really only wanted to be used on the open position. |
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Feb 5, 2018 3:01:48 GMT
That's a permanent keeper for me, just sweet.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 7, 2018 9:56:50 GMT
So, I have a, yet to be reviewed, Austrian Cavalry Officers sabre. I put it in the books as an M1869 Officers after reading your old post: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/30977 and yes, I got this oldie via Google Images. Now I am confused again. M1869 or M1861? Here are some pictures. The Solingen Eisenhouwer blade is nickel plated, so must have been ( re ) mounted after 1871.   Though I like the honeysuckle guards on the Officers models, they can make identification very difficult sometimes. Würtemberg used them too. Horror. Speaking of horror. I am sorting out my Austrian Folder. I am near crying and want to smash some Austrian heads. I have : Cavalry troopers: M1845. No slits in the bowl, 7 holes. Okay. Cavalry Troopers: M1858. Slits in the bowl and 6 holes. Okay. Than I have slits in the bowl, but with 7 holes. WTF?? M1850? So. How many bloody Cavalry Troopers models starting with the M1845 are there anyway? Can I have a list? Please? Edit: Fixed my data base. Wrong model info by some image providers made me go nuts. Also that some Austrian models were exported to some German States with only slight modification. And the one pictured above is definitely an M1869 Officers. |
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Post by oddj on Mar 8, 2019 17:47:04 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 9, 2019 16:58:10 GMT
Late to the party here, but wondering how long the 1869 officers version were in production. Buggered by the customs department who demand proof my baby is an actual antique. ![]() ![]() ![]() The 1869 Austrian Cav Officers Saber remained the service saber until 1904. Unit and family swords don't just die. I don't know the specifics of this piece, but the scabbard in the 1904 regulation saddle mount one. Either case it is legitimate to the Austrian Cavalry Service. ( With Drawn Sword, Ortner and Artlieb, Pub Warm Museum Vienna, 2015) |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Mar 10, 2019 4:21:11 GMT
,, With Drawn Sword''.
Do you have the ISBN number for this book?
Museum publications tend to be hard to find without the ISBN.
Cheers.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 10, 2019 11:14:01 GMT
,, With Drawn Sword''. Do you have the ISBN number for this book? Museum publications tend to be hard to find without the ISBN. Cheers. on sale. 140.00 this is the publishers site. (Verlag Militaria) ISBN 3-9501642-3-5 |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 10, 2019 13:09:46 GMT
ISBN 9783950164237 - With Drawn Sword: The Austro ...
Alternate US listing for ISBN.
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Post by berntk on Mar 10, 2019 16:40:17 GMT
Thanks! Ordered from the publisher!
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Must've been part of the bomb squad. 
