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Post by PSnewbie on Apr 18, 2012 6:16:01 GMT
Hello all, My name is Richard and I'm absolutely 100% new to the world of swordsmanship and I need a little help. But first, a little background information. I have experience with throwing knives and longer daggers, but this is my first katana that I have bought. I've always been interested in the Japanese katana, but never bought one until now. I'm not gonna lie, I bought it at a convention from a vendor. Normally I wouldn't have done this for a lack of background information, but I've never seen a blade like this and the price was cheap at $240. So I know that I may have gotten a bad deal, but it won't be enough to break the bank. It is the blade that is most curious to me and I was told by the vendor that it is a folded blade made from 1060 carbon steel and T10 tool steel. The vendor by the way was dragon song forge and I know that some forums have portrayed him in a not so bright light and I've seen these posts, but to me he was very courteous and seemed knowledgeable. Now the katana is known as "The Tiger Blade" and here is why I bought it, the blade has been two-toned anodized one steel is still silver while the other is a nice golden orange. I don't think this was ever meant to be a cutting blade, but I wanted to see what the experienced people here know about a blade like this and what they can shed some light on. Thanks in advance for any help. -Rich And now the blade... So what do you guys think? I believe that for $240 this is one of the most interesting blades I have seen. Granted I don't have nearly the experience as anyone on here so that is why I came here. Again, any comments are welcome.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 20, 2012 0:08:28 GMT
it sounds like $240 is a number you think is cheap?.....and in that case, you got an interesting sword for a cheap price.
Im kinda stumped as to how and why they made this sword?
There is one trick to learn a bit more about the sword and thats to try to take the handle off. From what I understand if the handle is glued on, or if the tang turns out to be a welded bolt.....then you can hang this sword on the wall and live and learn from it.
You might try to look up the sword on the computer and find out some more information on it...
If you ever find a webpage that talks about it, or an ad, send me the link. I think it would be fun to learn more about this sword of yours.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 20, 2012 0:19:18 GMT
another way to learn how you think your own sword stacks up is for you to just compare it to another sword that sells for the same money. www.ebay.com.au/itm/LION-KOSHIRA ... 3f0f7a10ce
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 20, 2012 3:17:32 GMT
The grain of the steel does not look well done at all in my experience. The tsuka ito does not alternate properly and the end knot is not done correct either.
Pictures of the yokote (line where the kissaki/tip start) and the nakago (tang) would help as well. If you do take it apart take some pictures of the nakago-ana (hole where the tang goes in on the handle) If you can get the habaki off (brass blade collar) take some pics of the underneath there too.
As far as I can tell, I am sorry to say you probably paid too much. It looks like a pretty sword, and I am sure the blade is sharp. But I doubt it would hold up to use. You definitely should have waited it out and asked questions on the forum before impulse buying. I know, its hard when things look good. I almost paid 600$ for a ryumon phoenix, which is normally priced around 200$, probably worth less too. Then I found the forum and bought an 80$ musashi, which after 9 swords I still use frequently.
Trying to find Adrian.jordans katana buyer guide, I thought it was stickied but I guess I was wrong.
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Apr 20, 2012 4:05:49 GMT
Poorly done tsukamaki, low grade ito, low grade seppa, poorly cast and finished tsuba, generic habaki... and I haven't even gotten to the blade yet!
Then let's look at the blade - 1060/t10 folded blade? So what you get something with a non-homogenous hardness? Every other layer is softer than the other and that's good for the sword how? The grain is a clear indication that the blade wasn't "folded" but rather forge welded. The difference in brightness between the layers is a result of acid etching. The softer steel discolors more than the harder steel and as such the layers become more dramatic - garish even. A well folded blade has very small, tight and subtle layers - not this garishly overdone mess that we see all too often on cheap swords. The shape of the blade is very... generic and screams it wasn't done with much attention to shape and detail.
Basically you paid way too much for that sword - of course you purchased it at a convention and that already means you'd have paid too much. NEVER buy "cheap" swords at conventions of any sort. The vendors there sell off cheap crap (and sometimes cheap stuff that's not really crap but just overpriced) for way more money than anyone in their right mind would pay for them.
I've seen similar swords sell for somewhere from 1/2 to 2/3 that price.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 20, 2012 4:16:17 GMT
Nope, it's stickied. How could such a masterpiece of modern writing not be? forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6901Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is anything in there that would help. I do recall a member who had, like the OP, purchased a Dragon Song forge katana at a Ren Fair. He seemed to like a a good deal. I agree that it was likely over-priced, but what's done is done. All that's left to do is enjoy your new sword. Also, don't feel discouraged, as most of us made the unfortunate first purchase of something shoddy or over-priced. My first was a nearly $90 stainless steel wall-hanger from the mall. I loved the hell out of it and at the time thought stainless was a great choice for a sword(you don't want that crappy carbon steel, that stuff rusts!). You first is at least functional, so consider yourself a step ahead!
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 20, 2012 4:42:42 GMT
I was looking under Japanese swords. I was also slightly tipsy at the time so I blame that for my ignorance! Ps, take a look at that whole guide. You will find some invaluable info on production katana. This is a pretty broad statement man. Yeah, a lot of swords are a better bang for the buck, but a lot are also much worse. The Hauwei Ebay sword you posted is a good sword in my opinion. However there are truck loads of garbage katana selling for 250 and up and up and up. As for the folded patter on a blade here is a good page on the subject. www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 20, 2012 12:26:42 GMT
comparing? Yes, it is a widely used common way to judge things, regardless of what they are.
and around the SBG forum, its a very common answer you see posted too, where a guy will point out that > "For the same money you could have gotten ___, a far better sword"
Now if a guy spends $240 on a sword that on reflection seems questioning now if his sword is not worth that amount, a quick way to find out would be to look around at the market and see what else is out there for that same money?
Sometimes its eye opening, sometimes its painful... Sometimes it only confirms what you were thinking... Sometimes you learn something new.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 20, 2012 12:40:09 GMT
i forge blades myself in my free time, and I read a story of the guy who re-introduced pattern-welded steels to the world of bladesmighing.
It was at a knife show someplace, and out of the blue this guy shows up with blades that were totally unlike the other stuff on the market. Overnight that guy had changed the face of bladesmithing.
The pattern on his knife was the result of forge-welding layers of steel, and then acid etching the blade later. From this we now see a lot of bladesmights using cable to make knives and sword with. the pattern from a cable-welded blade is fun to see. Every blade is different, no two the same.
We also see a lot of blades now that show a pattern welding of two different metals that would normally never appear in a blade made to cut. Im thinking that this sword was one such blade that is a mix of metals that in normal situations would never pop up on a sword. But the effect they have is very striking.
I look at the pattern on the sword here that was sold for $240 and I can understand how a person might be drawn to it...It truly is a striking bit of art to just sit back and look at.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 20, 2012 15:16:38 GMT
You are correct sir, it is a good way of getting the facts of whats good and whats bad in swords. What I meant was that You can't just compare it to one sword, unless you are trying to decide which sword out of the two you think is better or that you want to buy. the sword you linked... www.ebay.com.au/itm/LION-KOSHIRA ... 3f0f7a10ce Is a very different sword to the one he has. Its not folded, it is DH and is mostly a cutting sword. I would have given him a folded sword to compare it to. This is an example of a nice folded katana in my opinion. www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... -with-bohi Okay, I am not saying that the word doesn't look cool, or attractive. It is both, I think that folded steel looks cool, even if its not done properly. The original post was to ask the value, I told him it. And I also gave him some more info to read on so he knows why I said it wasn't worth the price he paid.
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Post by PSnewbie on Apr 23, 2012 10:57:07 GMT
Thanks for the lively input guys. I knew that the $240 was a convention price, but for such a design i really enjoyed the piece. I'm sure it was over market price, but i'm okay with that. Since buying it i have been scouring the internet for it, but have only found near identical pieces. I have come to the conclusion to use this as a show piece and have already received a helpful pm in that sense. Thanks for the intrigued responses. And i'm sorry that it took awhile to respond, been away at work. Thanks again guys. -Rich
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 23, 2012 16:08:35 GMT
No problem man! Welcome to SBG, I hope we can help you with any questions!
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