|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Apr 15, 2012 21:19:29 GMT
Ok, I know topic may be a bit over discussed lately, so I'll try to focus my questions on things that are specific to me. Like others on this board, I've been looking for a light fenceable (is that a word) functional sword to add to my collection. It is also my desire - hopefully this year - to take some fencing lessons. My problem is that I'm a bit wary of size/weight/balance, and for some strange reason, I can't seem to give up on the idea that a sword should be able to cut as well as thrust. Anyway, a while ago, I bought a CS Small Sword. It was nice, tight fittings, rigid blade and no edge to speak of. I had fun using it to pierce holes into an old binder full of paper. It was the only sword of mine that could go into the binder and pierce the papers inside for more than an inch with just a light thrust. I eventually returned it because the scabbard had some ugly scuffs on it and my retailer could not get a replacement in for me. Today, I went and I checked out the CS Colichemarde. Beautiful for the price, and even though the specs on it has it a bit heavier than the CS Small Sword, it actually felt lighter in my hands. Almost bought it on the spot. What turned me off was that the wire wrap on the handle was not very tight, and if I put two hands on it and pushed in opposite directions, I could see the wrap start to come off. CS is coming out with a spadroon and though it's currently unavailable, I really like the stats. Get this, it's only 22oz! I get the feeling that the blade is probably very flexible but that should be ok right? Anyway, CS's new spadroon is what started me down this path. Anyway, I've been going back and forth with Scott from Darkwood Armory for a while now, and I feel I am very close to making a decision. Scott has been great and has answered all my emails patiently and with good info. I'd feel bad right now if I didn't buy anything from him! So, my first question to put into the ether known as SBG is this: Anyone with experience with Darkwood's swords? They sell them on the site dull as the main thrust (pun intended) of Darkwood is to make practice and theatrical swords. Scott has mentioned that they can make the blade sharp, but that it would be sword sharp, not paper cutting sharp. I don't want to waste anymore of his time, so if someone here's got a couple of minutes, I wouldn't a quickie explanation! BTW, the sword I've been discussing with him is his spadroon. Shown here: www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php ... cts_id=260 Dave Kelly, in the Straight Sabers, smallswords, rapiers and like? thread put this link up and I immediately followed it: www.museumreplicas.com/p-1746-18 ... sword.aspx I think I'm in love! I can even put my initials on it! Therefore, my second and third questions in this tedious post (sorry, I'm somewhat longwinded!). Anyone with experience on this sword? 1lb 14oz seems quite heavy for a small sword. I was really thinking that I would only be able to handle maybe up to 1.5lbs max, but for a sword that can cut and thrust, I'd be willing to go for a bit heavier. Third question, what is the difference between factory edge an the sharpening service? I think - since it's Windlass - that factory edge means as sharp as a letter opener, but would like some confirmation. So, any input would be greatly appreciated! Also, what do you guys think? Should I go for the Museum Replicas small sword, or go for the Darkwood Armory spadroon? Keep in mind that with Darkwood, I would have to have to buy the scabbard separate. Scott mentioned Tritonworks, and from the pictures, Russ's stuff looks like it can rival Christian Fletcher's! Downside of course in the additional expense and wait time. Thanks! Cole |
|
|
|
Post by darius6716 on Apr 16, 2012 22:09:59 GMT
If you do go with the Windlass version they have it at Kult of Athena for 50 bucks cheaper here:http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=501390&name=18th+Century+Small+Sword
Also they have what is essentially a military spadroon here:http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=500350&name=1840+Non+Commissioned+Officer+Sword
My opinion is while the Darkwood is nicer looking I'd go with the Windlass Smallsword. It's peened, a decent thickness, and comes with a scabbard.
|
|
Razor
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,883 
|
Post by Razor on Apr 17, 2012 2:00:44 GMT
What ever you do, do not let Darksword sharpen your sword, if you buy from them! I had to fix one of Todash's sword edges, that Darkwood sharpened......the worst sharpening job i have ever seen. But I like how DS spadroon looks. I think I would still go with the Windlass. Yeah I guess you can call Windlass's edges letter opening sharp.......My fingers are also letter opening sharp too. lol How about this sword? www.ltspecpro.com/products/390-1 ... saber.aspx The only problem I see with it, is that it come with a steel scabbard.......very hard on sword edges. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Apr 17, 2012 2:20:17 GMT
Hey Cole: If you are considering training in small sword, I'd counsel finding a trainer/ study group and seek their input on what they use. Small sword evolved out of rapier. The diamond blade came first as draw cuts and slashing was taught as part of the repertoire in the 17th Century. The hard pointed trefoil blade so well done in Hanwei's small sword came second. The spadroon was a militarization of the court sword. The Windlass is an excellent "package". Weapon, scabbard and hanger together. Nobody else does that. It is a bit heavy. The solid cast hilt is a bit clumsy. But the hand heaviness doesn't translate to the blade. Windlass delivers blades in a ready to sharpen state. Not really sharp, but thinned enough to contuse. You pay extra to have them sharpen. Depending on who does it, you'll probably get a secondary edge; and they may scratch up the blade in the process. I've had better luck at KoA than MRL in that respect. Whatever your choice, enjoy  |
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Apr 17, 2012 10:12:36 GMT
Hi guys, thanks so much for the input! Good points about the Windlass being the better package deal. No one ever said that this would be my first and last small sword right? Well, maybe my wife will have something to say about it! :lol:
Darius, thanks for pointing me to the 1840 sword. Due to my limitations, I never even considered it! But, why is it only $80? Not that I'm complaining! But when you compare it to the small sword at $200, I have to wonder what the catch is. Is it because the small sword has more decorations and is nickel plated with a leather scabbard? If that it, then I don't mind. I kinda like the simple utilarian look of the 1840!
Hey Razor, thanks for the info about the sharpening...I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future! As for the Cold Steel sabre, yeah, I did consider it since I'm a fan of CS and they're the easiest acquired brand up here in TO. I haven't ordered anything cross border in ages cause the border duties killed my joy. Still the CS sabre is probably too heavy for me.
Dave, good point about the training. You're right, I may end up getting the 1840 because of the price, and after I've had some training, I'll go looking for something more expensive!
Cole
|
|
|
|
Post by kurokaze on Apr 17, 2012 15:45:47 GMT
Actually, Darksword armoury and Darkwood armory are different companies. The spadroon is from Darkwood, and I don't know about their sharps, except that it isn't their primary thrust, being focused more on training swords. Pun not intended, btw.  |
|
|
|
Post by Rabel Dusk on Apr 17, 2012 18:48:16 GMT
Another transitional rapier is the Del Tin DT5182, which is in stock over at KOA - www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... ury+Rapier - I've got one, and it is light and quick. the only thing I dislike about it is that the hilt is too long for my hand to wield it comfortably. You can also have them made a pretty decent leather scabbard to go with it. |
|
Razor
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,883
|
Post by Razor on Apr 18, 2012 0:18:42 GMT
:oops: My bad I read his post wrong......sorry. Darkwood and Darksword are to close for me I guess. That makes more sense, I didn't think Darsword made a spadroon. I was talking about Darksword armory in my last post and NOT Darkwood.
Now That spadroon is a Darkwood sword. I would get that 110% over the Windlass. Darkwood can do sharps and I have a Darkwood sharp backsword blade and it is intened to be a sharp and does not flex like their training blades.
@cloe, If you are going to train with it? Get the Darkwood spadroon with the training blade, unless the school you are going to go wants you to use someting else. If you want it a sharp? I think you have to ask them for it. it's not an option.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Apr 18, 2012 9:20:50 GMT
Thanks! Yeah I did see this one, and the only problem is that it's over my price range - especially when you consider that A scabbard is another 100, sharpening is 18, and shipping is a whopping 42! For that kind of money, I'm better of spending a tad more and getting an A&A small sword with a diamond cross section blade. Razor, the plan (for now) is to get a fenceable yet functional sword for collecting. The fencing school in my area will supply all equipment to beginners - although I'm sure I'll get my own mask pretty fast! If I end up liking it and getting better, I'll probably end up buying a practice foil. This way, I get to have my cake and eat it too! Cole |
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Apr 18, 2012 17:12:19 GMT
Just emailed Stromlo Swords. In the British swords section of the site, it looks like there are several swords that might fit the "spadroon" category. There is even a Five Ball Spadroon that looks suspiciously like the new offering from Cold Steel, right down to where the description says that it has an imitation ivory handle. In my email, I also asked if they were the same sword, and if they were, then we know that Cold Steel is majorly increasing their margin!
Much as I would love a Darkwood, Arms and Armor or even a Del Tin, the reality is that they are way out of my price range - especially when you factor in the scabbard and shipping. I've found too many negative comments about the Windlass 1840 NCO sword about the hilt being loose, and no comments about the 18th Century Small Sword. I even sent an inquiry to GG Godwin about his Epee du Solat, but no response from him yet. The Cold Steel Colichemarde had really loose wire wrap on the handle, and I'm not overly fond of a triangluar blade that cannot slash. Yeah, I know that the purpose of a small sword is thrust, but in a real fight, wouldn't you find yourself in many situations where you might have thrusted and missed, turn that thrust into a slash, and if you had a triangular blade, your slash would turn into a bonk instead of the stinging distration that a regular blade would have done?
Cole
|
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Apr 25, 2012 12:39:54 GMT
Ok, I think I may have come to a decision - finally - on this topic. After much deliberation, dozens of emails and tons of browsing...the decision is... Quantity over quality... The biggest problem with the small sword category is that there aren't really any choices out there in the 300 or less range. Yes, there is the Cold Steel offerings, but I've already written about the downside of the colichemarde and there's an excellent review of the small sword here. After this range, the price jumpes to the 400 - 500 range with the scabbard coming separate. This is not necessarily bad as it allows you to specify what kind of scabbard you want, and you end up with two pieces of art instead of one. The problem comes back to cost. I just can't justify it - especially since I've found out that the Valiant Armoury Warder is on sale for $416 (with scabbard), and that's a sword I've lusted after for several months. Does that mean that I'm going to get the Warder? No... Looks like John Lundemo's got a new design for the Warder that's going to be offered through VA. Don't quote me on this, but I think it's going to be this one: www.odinblades.com/Gallery/guard ... rder/1.jpg Something else to lust after! Anway, in my usual rambling way, this is what I'm going to be ordering: www.warriorsandwonders.com/All_P ... ?cPath=125 www.warriorsandwonders.com/Europ ... ?cPath=125 Yeah, I know what you're saying....what about the spadroon? What about the small sword? What about fencing? What about quality? Well, the Torino was well reviewed here and the quality was good. Ditto with the Tinker. As for fencing, I believe that the Torino is definitely fenceable and besides, it'll be next to useless in the zombie apocalypse anyway! For that, I'll be getting the Tinker! Besides, the cost for both these swords is less than anything else I've looked at, so really, I'll be getting 2 for the price of 1! At least that's how I sold it to my boss, er wife! Thanks! Cole |
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on May 1, 2012 12:34:59 GMT
Hi everyone, I just wanted to close off this story to let everyone know what has happened, and maybe some other beginner can learn from what I've learned.
I started down this path because I saw Cold Steel's new offering for a spadroon, and saw that the weight of the sword was very light. I got into my head that I really wanted this sword solely because of the weight, never mind the fact that I wasn't really in love with the style of the hilt at all. I have always been partial to renaissance rapiers, but had always been afraid of the size and weight of the rapiers. I could never quite get a straight answer about rapiers. Some people that they were light and fast, and some others said that they were heavy and sluggish. Then, I saw the clearance sale at Warriors and Wonders for Hanwei products and decided that rather than spending almost 1000 on a custom small sword or spadroon, I would take a chance and spend 150 on a Hanwei Torino rapier, and at least satisfy this craving of mine to own a nice renaissance rapier. The review here also didn't hurt! I also picked up a Tinker Hand and Half for 210. I won't give them a review here, but I'll give my nooby impressions. I was a bit leery when I saw that the Torino was only 4 oz less than the Tinker, but I figured that if you never leap, you will never land!
Anyway, I ordered last Thursday, and the package arrived yesterday. Wow! Fastest delivery ever! I guess it helps that WaW are in between brick and mortar stores at the moment! Anyway, my fears were laid to rest the minute I pulled the Torino out. First thought...holy crap this thing is long! Seriously, it's about the same length as my 6 year old daughter is tall! I'm not a tall guy, so I was a little put off by the length...just a bit though. This sword is amazing! Dave Kelly once said that the weight would be in the hand and would not transfer to the blade. Holy cow was he right. At first I couldn't believe that the Torino was almost the same weight as a bastard sword, but I compared the two swords this morning by holding them point down and yes, the Torino is barely noticeable lighter. So, for other noobies out there who might be wondering, yes the balance plays a huge part in how a sword handles. Yes, all you experts are probably laughing at me now! :lol: One other thing to mention about the Torino is that the blade is VERY narrow. I'm almost wondering if the Torino might not be based off a transitional rapier. The blade is also very flexible and I was once under the mis-impression that a rapier had to have a rigid blade to be a good thruster. Boy was I wrong too! I did my thrusting into a full binder trick, and while the Tinker came sharper and pointier than the Torino, the Torino was way easier to thrust into the binder. The blade of the Torino was not that sharp and though I had once played with the idea of using an accusharp on it, I don't think I will anymore. It's quite sharp enough!
On to the Tinker. The version I got is the non fullered version. First impression...holy crap is the grip ever thin! I have small hands and I love the fact that I can comfortably wrap my hands around the grip. Second impression, holy crap this thing feels light too! Did I get stronger in the last few months? :lol: Anyway, I know I'm weird, but I love renaissance rapiers for the complex hilts, but I also love the Tinker for the simple cross hilt. How weird is that? Maybe I have split personality. Anyway, this morning, I compared the weights of the Tinker to my CS Imperial Double Edged katana (which I'm thinking of selling) and my Jin Shi Xin Jian. Remember, I don't have a luggage scale, so these impressions are all based upon my own ... uh... impressions...
When I got my Jin Shi, I couldn't figure out how heavy it was. All I could say was that it had a definite blade presence, but was also well balanced enough for me to swing in one hand easily. Anyway, I can safely say that my Xin is about the same weight as the Tinker, even though both these swords are as different as night and day. Looking at both swords edgewise, the Xin is thicker at the base but has a shorter blade. The CS Imperial was definitely heavier than both, and also felt more blade heavy than both.
In closing, would I recommend both the Torino and Tinker to other noobie collectors? Hell yeah! Would I give up my dream of owning a high end custom spadroon/small sword? Hell no, but I'll have to wait about a year or so...
I just want to say a quick thanks to the folks at A&A, Darkwood and Stromlo for their patience, friendliness and great customer service.
Thanks for listeing...er reading!
Cole
|
|
