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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 20:40:35 GMT
Heyo forum. I'm not really sure if this topic should go here, but since I'm discussing a military used bladed weapon (bayonet), eh, well let me know if it should go somewhere else.
Anyhow, back on topic. My grandfather served in the Navy during WWII, and he was stationed over seas for quite some time near the end of the war, transporting Japanese POWs to various release camps. He stayed at one camp for a particularly long time and he brought back two Arisaka Type 38 rifles complete with their Type 30 bayonets. He passed away several years ago, but just a a couple weeks ago, I asked my grandmother if she would mind me taking one. She of course had no use for an large rifle and bayonet, and thus I came into possession of some truly awesome equipment.
SO. I applaud you if you managed to read that excessively long story that you likely don't care about at all. This may seem incredibly lame, but I'm just excited about this, and I wanted to know if anyone else has one of these blades, or if you all would be interested in things like production info, actual description of the weapon, and various dates of service; all of which I can and will provide if prompted... :ugeek:
I think, since it is historical, I'm not going to mess with the blade, but I think I will get the rust off of the sheath, and maybe the quillons and pommel as well. I'm just not sure, because cleaning a historical gun to bring out the original finish is actually beneficial, but cleaning such blades may ruin their value.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 15, 2012 21:06:58 GMT
Well I have one. And I believe it's actually pretty much the same variation as yours. Mine has slightly different scabbard and it's in much worse condition.
I've had it for several year and just recently began to search more information on it. I was pretty wrong earlier (got rifle and bayo dates and manufacturers mixed up)...
So far I know mine has Kokura stamp with proof mark, serial number is c.1,76M. It's variation A as far as I know.
I would be happy to hear more about these, as I know next to nothing on militaria items, my intrest lies in earlier pieces.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 2:56:17 GMT
Nice. For removing the active rust just put a few drops of oil on the blade and wipe it down good, that should remove red rust but leave the patina so I can't imagine that it'd devalue the blade.
I have a (WWI?) bayonet, it's similar in size and also features a parrying hook. It's completely unmarked and in much worse condition, with several large pits in the blade and a black patina.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 18:54:40 GMT
Thanks for posting, and especially for the cleaning advice. As for identification, please do put up some pictures, perhaps I can help. It's always nice to put my obscure knowledge to good use. Also, you guys may have seen this, but if you haven't it's a great resource: www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html@koreanguy: I can't say anything for sure with out seeing the weapon, but I would guess that you are correct in thinking it's from WWI; but I would also guess that it is WWII as well, because the bayonet was invented even before WWI and manufactured through the end of WWII. so anyhow pictures would be nice, if you have the time. Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 19:04:16 GMT
Unfortunately I don't have a camera right now. There's actually a "B" on the spine of the blade, and some random markings at the base of the blade that could be lettering but look like they were made by a punch.
The guy at the antique store said that it was a WWI Mauser bayonet that was cut down for WWII. However the termination of the fuller looks a bit too clean for that. The parrying hook led me to believe that it was either Japanese or WWI? Because they seem uncommon on other WWI era bayonets.
It doesn't match any of the other antiques that I've looked at so far, I'll try to get my hands on a camera soon.
Oh, and I forgot to elaborate on the cleaning... only use about one drop of oil for the blade and spread it in a very thin layer, don't let it pool or bead on the blade because that will attract dust and possibly make it more rust prone. More is less.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 19, 2012 16:28:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 17:34:34 GMT
I have several Japanese bayonets in my collection. Most sources of information on them do not tell whether the bayonets were issued sharpened or not. I have a few in nice condition that are not sharpened at all and it doesn't look like someone had dulled the edge. I think the individual soldiers may have sharpened some of the issued bayonets.
I think the British had bayonets with curved guards like the T30 bayonets in WW1 for the Enfield rifles, but I have yet to see one.
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 19, 2012 17:49:21 GMT
If it got cut down, the proof would most likely be under the handle. Since it sounds like you are more interested in keeping it. This is what I would do, I would say screw the resale value, and clean/have it cleaned/restored to the same level as the gun. Please note, that is personal opinion and may be detrimental to the value of the bayonette.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 3:44:11 GMT
lamebmxI don't believe that mine was cut down, the blade's a good approx. 40 cm in length, and yes, I plan to clean it up and preserve it, but currently the gun is in worse condition rust wise. When I get both all cleaned up I'll post more pictures. @koreanguy Oh now you have me interested. Well when you obtain a camera, do a few close-ups of the markings, I'd like to see those. That "B" on the spine sounds like an inspection mark, but It seems unusual for that to have been done on the blade. And again, the maintenance advice is much appreciated. @jussi Ekholm Thank you! I had been looking but was only really able to find that one solid resource; these are great.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 0:23:42 GMT
Finally own my own camera! Did you learn anything about yours in the meantime? A picture.Another.Last one.The only marking that I found is still the "B" on the spine of the blade, near the handle. The other markings you can see in the picture look like recent, deep scratches of some sort. It's like someone attacked that area with a punch, who knows how they got there. |
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 14, 2012 15:56:16 GMT
KoreanGuy, well this is just uneducated guess but I think your bayonet could be Argentine M1909 or some other mauser variant. The locking mechanism seems to be different from Argentine but there might be different variations. Those blade, grip and crossguard do not fit any Type 30 variations that I am aware of. You might want to check this for identification guide: www.worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Id ... guide.html Here is a pic of my type 30 crossguard and hilt for reference: Mine is like MadeinScotlands but in lot worse condition.  *EDIT* Ok, it's too different to be M1909 Argentine I guess, but some form of mauser bayonet would still be my guess. |
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Post by Freebooter on Aug 6, 2012 12:12:11 GMT
I have a WWII Japanese early Arisaka Type 99 7.7.mm rifle and bayonet, both made by or at the Nagoya arsenal! To me an early war Japanese bayonet is beautiful. I like the parrying or stacking hook. Gives it an elegant look.
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Post by MEversbergII on Aug 13, 2012 13:59:24 GMT
Ah, this is cool. I have a soft spot for bayonets, especially the long "sword" style ones.
Speaking of which, does anyone know a company that makes reproduction sword bayonets?
M.
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Post by Freebooter on Aug 13, 2012 21:47:34 GMT
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Post by Svadilfari on Aug 15, 2012 3:36:13 GMT
Forgive me for saying, but what's pictured here isn't an Arisaka bayonet..but an early WW! British bayonet for the .303 SMLE . Sometime during the war..the British simplified the bayonets by no longer manufacturing them with down-turned quillions. Or at least, that's what I think it is..forgive me if I'm wrong. It's a bit hard to tell..but compare the first pics and these ones..note the difference in the finial at the end of the quillion..plus the spacing between the muzzle rings and the actual back of the blade. The Arisaka has a smaller diameter ring..and it's positioned further away from the blade
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Post by Freebooter on Aug 15, 2012 9:51:32 GMT
Just tried Photobucket again, could not log in. Tried and tried, as usual. tried using my facebook account, no luck, changed username and password. So again, to hell with photobucket. It pisses me off that I recieve nothing but a hassel every danged time I tangle with that site. Done with them.
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