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Post by lamebmx on Apr 17, 2012 1:25:17 GMT
aint no guide, just how I personally do things. take it all, take a piece here and there. it boils down to clean and add oil. honestly you could use some steel wool, wipe any remnants off then wipe with oil. Say bye bye to the pretty hamon, but it will still function the same. honestly its a tool, it deserves the respect any craftsman or mechanic gives their tools. I clean my sword for the same reason I clean my socket set after working on a car, or the chisel and plane when working on wood. Good tools have my respect because they do their duty when I need them to, so I take care of them so they can do their duty when the time comes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 2:08:35 GMT
Precisely. This is important. You don't need to hit the swod with abrasive every time you clean it, go easy on the abrasive powder and your sword will last a lot longer.
What I want to doubly emphasise is to understand what you're doing, and why you are doing it.
Now, this is where the lines blur... All you are basically doing with any cleaning regimen is sealing off the blade with oil to prevent moisture and oxygen rusting the blade. When there is a need to remove rust of any build up, you use abrasive. It's that simple.
But... if you want to turn the whole thing into a Japanese traditional ritual, realise that the point of that whole process is not to just clean the sword, it's loaded with a stack of Japanese cultural ideals, customs, philosophy and spirituality, drawn from Zen Buddhist and Shinto perspectives. Now, add on top of that a bucket-load of Japanese cultural superiority and anal-retentive attitude about how "theirs is best" and how you need to spend several hundred dollars on a silly primitive abrasive powder applicator (powder ball) loaded with what is essentially crushed rock, and you've got a recipe for confusion.
<note: what follows is an explanation that mentions the Japanese philosophy of Zen Buddhism, not the Japanese mainstream religion of Pure Land Buddhism - as I don't want to start any religious debates!)
The whole ritualised methodical process of sword cleaning in my understanding is tied in with Zen Buddhist (which were drawn from the Chinese Ch'an Buddhist) teachings of being 100% focussed on the task at hand, and flowing with the process so you achieve the state of "no mind" which puts you in "the zone". Now, it's more than just reaching that state, the whole point of getting there is to train yourself to detach from the material world, from the self, in everyday life and to reach a state of inner bliss by being content living in the here and now. The whole point of that is not just to be happy in the present, but to free yourself of karma and escape the wheel of samsara, to ultimately reach a state of nirvana. Now that's the philosophy behind it all.
Now, watching people in dojos pretending to be carrying out eastern spiritual practices without a clue, thinking they are "just participating in culture" never ceases to amuse me. They're trying to be a "bit Buddhist and a bit Shinto" without realising it, and it's a mockey of the real practices. It's rife in the western JSA world especially.
<note: what follows is an explanation that mentions the Japanese practice of Shinto, which is discussed historically as the indigenous spirituality of Japan, not as a religion - technically it is a philosophy, as there is no professing of faith or belief, it is embodied in many varying practices - from the wiki article - The word Shinto ("Way of the Gods") was adopted from the written Chinese (神道, pinyin: shén dào), combining two kanji: "shin" (神?), meaning "spirit" or kami; and "tō" (道?), meaning a philosophical path or study (from the Chinese word dào).)
You hear a lot about "respecting the sword", what does that mean??? To a secular westerner it's just a stupid lifeless piece of sharp steel designed to kill and injure people, which will rust away to nothing in time and become dirt. To a Shinto practitioner, all things are alive, this philosophy is called animism. Yes, the rock, trees, mountains, the lot, no exceptions. The sword has a spirit too, and as animists, they treat all objects as having a life essence. The spirits are called kami, a sort of nature spirit if you will. The lamest excuse I hear from people is that the "repect" refers to treating the tool with care because it is valuable or art, now this is purely denialist BS. Soldiers in modern armies treat their tools with care, heavens, their life depends on them being well serviced and maintained. The object in Shinto is being treated with the respect you would afford to a living entity because it is regarded as one, period. That's their belief system, and that should be respected, even if it makes us westerners emulating those practices look absurd, because we end up doind something incompatible with our own beliefs! So the LARP guys aren't the only ones role playing here...
So, with this is mind, all the iaido schools with their opening rituals and etiquette - how legitimate is it to emulate a religious/philosophical system without knowing what we're doing, or why we're doing it?
Everyone like to do the "lets pretend to be Japanese" bit, but to carry out Shinto or Buddhist ritual without believing their beliefs is pointless because they themselves are doing it for a reason, with an end goal in mind, and unless we are practising these systems, we are play acting and being frivolous with other people's cultures.
Now I'm not trying to discourage people doing what they do in their dojos or outside of their schools, but just trying to point out what they are doing and why so they understand, and to show that you can't be "a little bit Buddhist" or "a little bit Shinto" any more than you can be "a little bit Catholic" when you believe something completely different.
So, back to the main topic, were you looking to clean your sword, or to undertake a path in self development utilising the Zen philosophy?
If you're wanting to follow the Zen path, it doesn't necessitate pretending to be Japanese, as attaching to cultural artefacts is the first mistake on theat path, as is attaching to anything, the objects are outside of you (like authentic Japanese powder balls and powdered Japanese abrasive stones), you can reach the state cleaning your sword with completely modern materials - microfibre cloth, rubbing alcohol, mag wheel polish, and sythetic mineral oil. If you're wanting to just experience a slice of Japanese culture, I can't really help you there.
Hope this helps you understand what it is that you're actually asking.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 2:20:34 GMT
As lamebmx said, "I clean my sword for the same reason I clean my socket set after working on a car, or the chisel and plane when working on wood. Good tools have my respect because they do their duty when I need them to, so I take care of them so they can do their duty when the time comes." This is why I clean my swords too. This is the real and only practical reason for cleaning a sword.
Anything beyond this is far past cleaning, and delving into personal development. just be careful, the Japanese have a very bad habit of blurring the lines between practicality, art, philosophy, religion and culture. Maybe the problem is with our western approach that we actually separate all these apart, but either way, for a westerner, you can't understand things Japanese from the western perspective and mindset. In the west, cleaning a tool simply means cleaning a tool, and pouring tea means you want a hot drink, while in Japan, it means that you're doing everything else as well. So, forget about "what the Japanese do" and ask yourself, not being Japanese, what is the real goal here?
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 21, 2012 16:46:42 GMT
I wish they would tell new guys this fact a lot more....
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 21, 2012 16:57:01 GMT
AND..............the verdict is......
Today I got back home from working on the road for 2 weeks, and I gave my blades some attention.
Rather than the normal use of the standard little cleaning kit I got with a sword I decided to put into action the things you guys have been talking about.
Mineral oil, and rubbing alcohol and microfiber cloths.
IT WORKED LIKE A CHARM!
I even was able to come up with a type of "flow" to the act of cleaning my swords that actually has it's own beauty to it. Discarded, never to be used again, is the powder ball that came with the cleaning kit.
yes, I miss the tapping of the ball onto the sword, but that cant be helped.
I decided that I needed to develop a formal form to cleaning my swords that would be something that i could use in a class situation. That turned out to be a lot more easy that i thought. The problem with the rubbing alcohol I believed last week would be that the stuff drys fast.... However that turned out to not be all that true. I found that once I loaded up a cloth ahead of time that i had enough alcohol on the cloth to do several swords.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 21, 2012 19:17:17 GMT
Right on. For a kit, you could just get one of those little 2 or 3oz spritz bottles from the Dollar Store and put some alcohol in that, then spray the blade and wipe it down. That may help to use for a kit to take to class.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 21, 2012 19:28:25 GMT
...will look for such today...
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 21, 2012 19:51:18 GMT
Another option is to pre-soak the alcohol rag first, and put it in a ziplock bag. Squeeze out any air and it should keep nice and damp for a couple days. Probably longer, thats just how long I have successfully stored it in this method.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 10:37:40 GMT
Well done! Good to hear it worked really well.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 13:47:47 GMT
well......
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 14:08:37 GMT
I know from the outside a lot of the mannerisms used in the sword arts seem to make us out to be "wannabee" Buddhist. I dont just hand a sword to a member of my class, there is a whole sword etiquette to use that is different according to the rank of the person you are giving or receiving the sword from. There are rules,,,, Rules used so that everyone is on the same page when handing a sharp piece of steel to another.
a lot of the things you see in the sword art halls across the world are in fact historically found in how things were done in Asian temples. And this is no accident, for even 2000 years ago you still have to find a ways to deal with students and swords that keeps everyone on the same page.
and some of the ways of olden days, have proven to be very wise to remember today...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 15:07:22 GMT
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Post by DMikeM on Apr 22, 2012 16:36:53 GMT
Nice replacement powder that works great and has a very fine polishing ability is diatomaceous earth. It is fossils of freshwater organisms and crushed to a fine powder. It is a a silica, alumina, and iron oxide compound that is so fine and dry that it is used to kill insects by mechanical and dehydrating means. It will polish your nail if you rub them with it. You can get it all over the place like Walmart and plant stores as an insect killer. Just try to stay away from the type used in pool filtration and stick to the food grade. Like this www.earthworkshealth.com/.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 17:27:29 GMT
what?
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 17:29:05 GMT
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Post by DMikeM on Apr 22, 2012 22:56:07 GMT
Yes, you can use it to do a parasite flush for you or your pets. I have used it in my dog food for a year, and sprinkle it in the garden and carpets every couple of months. I had a bad flea infestation here once and was able to kill them off in a week with this stuff. But I caution wear a dust mask if you go to that extreme. But for polishing metal it seems to work very well and removes the oils and finger prints with just a couple passes.
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Post by Maynar on Apr 22, 2012 23:49:47 GMT
That stuff looks amazing, thanks for the tip DMikeM.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 0:17:52 GMT
diatomaceous earth is the light abrasive in toothpaste too!
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 23, 2012 0:31:08 GMT
Pearly whites from crusty fossils. I cant wait till the AM brush just to think about this!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 0:36:18 GMT
No, see my previous comments, it's not about rules or safety. Tradesmen use dangerous tools too and have very stringent safety procedures, but no ritual and philosophy/spirituality attached to using their tools, such as chainsaws. You clean, sharpen and maintain a chainsaw more than any katana, but you don't revere it or bow to it! Western swordsman seperate out their combat arts from their spiritual/religious/cultural practices, so you won't do anything other than learn swordsmanship there - no prayers, contemplation, veneration of holy objects, etc. Where your nation's flag is hanging on your dojo wall at the front is where a shrine to the ancestors traditionally sits, ancestor worship is important in asian culture, so its not being traditional and it's a "pick and choose" thing, and is a deviation of their culture. I'm just showing that dojos carry out a bastardised version of something sacred in Japanese culture which is more or less meaningless in the end. Respect to your school, teacher and fellow students is important and all good schools enforce these values even if they dispense with the unecessary and meaningless Japanese cultural parts that have nothing to do with swordsmanship. Ultimately, each to their own, people will attend dojos that give them what they want, so everyone's happy in the end!
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