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Post by Groo on Mar 18, 2012 10:14:08 GMT
I just got my first katana, it's the Moroha Zukuri Raptor, but it's not very snug in the saya. If I turn it upside down the katana would fall out of the saya. Is this normal?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 10:25:11 GMT
In my experience if they are a good fit you can turn the saya upside-down and the sword holds. Most, if not all of my katana will do that, from the cheap ones (some of which are too tight, but they loosen with use) to the expensive ones. I don't own any of the Raptor range, not sure how they normally are as far as fitting. Be careful if your saya is a loose fit and you wear in on your belt and forget and bend over to pick something up, the sword slides out in a real dangerous fashion. Luckily it's only happened to me with a bokken in a plastic saya. Incidentally, you can shim the mouth of the saya for a better fit, many katana, including the Hanwei ones if I recall correctly, tell you how to do this in the instructions that come with the swords.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 18, 2012 10:31:54 GMT
It should not fall out of the saya even if it is loose, if you hold the saya with your left hand and your thumb over the tsuba. That is how you suppose to walk around with a katana, thumb over tsuba at all time. Just like with a M16/M4 rifle, you should always be aware of your thumb location on the safety switch, the condition of the rifle, and the direction that the muzzle is pointing.
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Post by Groo on Mar 18, 2012 10:34:50 GMT
yea my saya is too loose! it didn't come with any instructions on how to shim the saya...
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Post by Groo on Mar 18, 2012 10:38:00 GMT
it didn't fall out just walking around with it, but I just thought it felt loose compared to my jian, so I tried a holding it to see if it would slide out upside down. It shouldn't fall out without your thumb on the tsuba should it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 10:43:01 GMT
Good point Student, thanks for mentioning it, I forgot to, it's a very important point, you can't rely on the grip of the saya to retain the sword!
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 18, 2012 10:43:37 GMT
No, it should not. But you should treat all katana as if they have loose fitting between habaki and saya. If you draw your katana a lot, it will eventually loosen. It is unavoidable. The only difference between well built katana and a poorly built one is how long. By treating all katana that way, you develop good safety habit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 10:46:10 GMT
Your left hand grips the top of the saya, and the thumb rests on the top of the tsuba, on the side of the grip, holding the sword down in the saya, so there is no way it can fall out, as long as you keep your thumb there.
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George
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Post by George on Mar 18, 2012 11:13:55 GMT
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 18, 2012 12:27:25 GMT
Im just a student in a sword class myself, but of the swords I have been allowed to use, I sure wish I could take one of them home and shim them as seen in the photos....
Of the swords I have been around in the class, most are hard to get out being very new.
But we are taught to always have the thumb over the edge of the guard to hold the sword in the Saya, and then to use the thumb to push it out before the right hand pulls it all the way out.
Oh, by the way...when you bow, thats when a lot of people screw up and grab the blade with their hands ...so keep the thumb on the guard as you bow or when you bend forward there is a chance the sword might come flying out, and you may forget and reach to stop it...
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 18, 2012 18:55:52 GMT
The habit of holding the mouth area of the saya with thumb on tsuba is for safety and draw. The fit should be snug. It should be more than capable of hold the sword in the saya upside down. From the ones I have handled, it should be hard to draw without pushing your thumb on the tsuba. They loosen and shims are common. So for a fresh fit, you have the thumb on tsuba to pop it out to make drawing easier. As things become loose you have your thumb there to prevent accidents. Then you shim and repeat!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 19:08:24 GMT
The shim should be on the ha (edge) side. Ideally, the fit of the koiguchi to habaki should float the blade in the the saya with the edge away from wood. A shim on the mune side will do the opposite of what you really want. Never on the sides. A real learning curve is that some start by actually filing because a sword may seem to fit too tight and not seat fully. In Iaido, well, ask sensei
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George
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Post by George on Mar 18, 2012 20:42:28 GMT
That makes sense, but wouldn't that cause a heap of rattle and lateral movement?
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Post by Groo on Mar 18, 2012 22:02:11 GMT
I wonder if I can get something like that at a hardware store..... about how thick is the shim?
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 19, 2012 3:31:33 GMT
Pretty thin. I have used a few slices of notebook paper and wood glue to shim my practice musashi. I would recommend against that for a nicer sword.
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Post by Groo on Mar 19, 2012 4:07:55 GMT
how bout a small strip of duct tape?
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George
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Post by George on Mar 19, 2012 7:52:26 GMT
Wouldn't hold. The sliding of the Habaki would pull it out. Its very thin, like a playing card. Maybe you could use floor laminate? I got a few little sheets of the shim, its a very handy thing to have.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 19, 2012 13:20:43 GMT
really thin, and you can build more than one layer if its not enough. you can file it down a bit if you shim too much. again thats all for cheap practice swords. if you are in a pinch, and have a wood plane, shaving off a piece of poplar or two would be fairly close to traditional.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 19, 2012 14:04:43 GMT
The shims I have used are about 0,5mm in thickness.
Just take a note that seasonal weather changes can affect the fit as well. Depending where you live but here in Finland there is a big difference in humidity between winter and summer.
If your sword happens to start to fall out of the saya (it shouldn't if you are handling it correctly) do not try to catch it by hand. Swords are very sharp and as it's already in downward movement there is a big chance it will cut you when you try to grab it..
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Post by Groo on Mar 20, 2012 1:08:27 GMT
cheers for the info!
well it hasn't fallen out by accident, I was just testing it and turned it all the way upside down and it falls out
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