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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 23:42:35 GMT
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 23:46:48 GMT
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jhart06
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Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
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Post by jhart06 on Mar 13, 2012 23:51:02 GMT
I hate to say it, but a fully mounted folded steel and clay tempered katana like that will fall into a category that I am fmailair with, even though i collect euros... You can have things cheap, quality, or nice looking... Pick 2 out of the 3, and that's usually what you get. If it's cheap, and looks nice, worry on the quality.. Plus, neither entry shows much if any statistics on the blade, another warning sign. As well, the bold text proclaiming the layers smacks, to me, of hype-marketing, which usually means they're trying to use big well known words that aren't of any real bearing to the swords quality, but are often designed to impart the illusion of quality to the consumer.
For that price, i'd look at sinosword or huawei or zhisword or even if you want a thorough hardened blade, Ronin Katana.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 0:05:46 GMT
The main problem I have with so many of the swords i have looked at, or have been suggested for me to take a look at, is that the vast majority are acid etched on their hamon, or they dont even have a hamon. acid etching means "fake" to me....thats just the image I have whenever i see a guy holding a sword that does not have anything close to a real Hamon.... "fake" is all i think to myself. SO I got to have a real hamon, and that means that a lot of the blades, if not all of them that i have looked at lately are not what Im really seeking to find. But lets take a 2nd look at this sword >www.katanacn.com/product_131.html and let me show you what Im seeing that catches my eye and is "on paper" what im looking for.... Steel: Damascus 16384 LayerI know that freaks you out, but that is kinda what i was looking for too....so credit the man who put that at the top of the list cuz it caught me attention. Hamon(Tempered line): Distinct real Hamon created by fully hand polishing;I want a real hamon...not fake, not acid etched to help it, but just a normal hamon. From the photos this hamon looks like I dream about getting. Saya: Black piano lacquered wood tied with black Japanese silk Sageo;sounds a little bland, but also very well made. The use of "silk" is a great addition to this package. Tang: Full tang, signed with unique numberThere!,,thats what i wanted to see !...a signed tang..that give me a great visual aid when before my class stripping apart the handle. Condition: Brand new & can be fully disassembled and assembled;What more could i ask for? Now is there any review of this sword that points out some nasty flaws in this package? Does anyone have a problem with the seller? Does the maker have a bad reputation? Do other swords by this same company suck?
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jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
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Post by jhart06 on Mar 14, 2012 0:52:49 GMT
I have now seen you ask for advice, get advice you don't like and reject it immeadiately. The swords you say you are wanting frankly dont exist at your price point, and sinowsword and huawei can and will do hand/stone polish, you just have to ask. I've seen a huawei 1095 blade with hand polish that looked near as possible to a ninhonto from modern methods.
Just because it says damascus and quotes a lot of layers means next to nothing. Actually, at the price range there tends to be shoddy damascus work which means a weaker blade more prone to failure. I'd also be highly skeptical of someone saying they are selling a hand polished sword w/ hamon for under two hundred.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 1:04:05 GMT
I just ordered a Wakizashi from them the other day. Not a folded blade though. I will let you know what I think when it gets here.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 1:07:02 GMT
Im not rejecting any advice, I have looked at every link and every sword i have been pointed to. I am just attempting to aim the answers I get to the goals I have.
The goals are to get a sword made with a good steel and has a nice hamon.
Now i do get a lot of suggestions to look at swords that are very good cutters, or have a great reputation, but many times they also are made of 5160 and that steel is off my list because of what I know about it first hand having used it many times in the past when i have forged my own blades.
So it's not that im rejecting advice, but rather Im seeking to make sure people understand what it is Im looking for.
Im looking for a Katana with a great steel, and that has a great real hamon that is not the result of being dipped in an etch.
There are other things that would be nice to find too like a signed tang, or a fancy Saya...but they are not really the "deal breaker" for me...
I just want a sword that has a great steel....1060, 1080, etc...whatever, just not a truck spring like 5160, and it has to have a nice looking real hamon.
So many of the Practical Katanas that I get suggested to me are nice, but they got dunked in acid etch at some point and I cant help it, every time I see a sword that i can tell was etched i think "It's Fake"
I dont want a fake hamon.
Now I have about 20 swords on the list to now pick from that are said to be close to what Im looking for, and for this help Im very thankful to everyone that is helping me......and busy..... So I apologize if you have found my seeking to fine tune things to get to the goal I have had...
I imagine the it might be very frustrating to post me the name of a great cutter, and then see that I really was seeking a sword with a hamon and your suggestions all were TH and so lacked the one thing i was seeking....
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 1:09:32 GMT
I read a review of such a blade that seem to support it alot...
please let me know of your own findings....
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Post by chopper on Mar 14, 2012 1:18:51 GMT
If it was me, I wouldn't take a chance on that sword. Thats quite a low price for a folded steel blade. The pictures on that site are so dark that you can't see any detail, as if they took pics in poor light to hide things. Seems suspicious to me. Why not invest in something you KNOW is good quality. If it's our of your price range, save some more money. It would be worth it in the end. There are other good options in folded steel blades out there with a good reputation.
This is how I look at it. I would rather pay a little more for a better quality item then pay a lower price and get a lemon that I'm not going to be satisfied with. Then have to pay the amount of the original sword a second time plus more to get one you will enjoy. Seems like a gamble to me.
Im not familiar with that sword or company. Maybe someone else is and can chime in.
I don't really like a acid etched hamon either but just because it's acid etched doesn't mean it's crap. It's just done that way to make the homon stand out. I have used Flitz metal polish on several swords to remove the etched look to reveal a very nice looking homon underneath.
The decision is yours. Get what ever you think you will be happy with. We're just trying to help you make a edjucated decixion. Good luck to you.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 1:25:00 GMT
I dont know a thing about ANY of these companies.... Im in the dark about what guys deliver on time, and what guys never answer their phone?
thats why I put out the names of a few swords that my searching has brought to me...I want to know if Im stepping into a minefield?
I just want a katana with a great steel,,,and folded would be darn nice i will admit, and that it has to have a great hamon. As much as a teaching tool as anything else i would love it to be signed.
With luck i hope some with first hand knowledge of this sword will happen by....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 1:31:16 GMT
I posted this late last year...no responses IIRC. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7819&p=97767#p97767It was a query about wangkatana2011 swords on their ebay site. Tough call. Until someone takes the plunge we may never know. The non folded swords look decent for the low price point. I note you refererence acid etched as fake hamon. Not really the case in a number of vendors. T-10 blades exhibit a prominent natural hamon without acid etching. Hamons can be enhanched by chemical means but they are in no way fake, just brought out more with the etchant.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 1:37:11 GMT
consider what this is like for me... I was given the name of a sword that lots of people think the world of...The Musashi TigerSo I went to the listed website and really did not find a clear understanding of the steel of that sword. There was the one paragraph that suggested it was made by wrapping a hard steel around a softer steel. If this was true?..then this is exactly the type of "Wow" addition to a sword that i was looking for. But it took a few more posts for me to find more information on the Musashi Tiger , and the problem is that some of this information is in contradiction to other information. I saw on one website that this same sword is made by wrapping 1060 steel around 1045 steel. if thats true that that sounds like a winner . But then I get sent another link to look at the Musashi Tiger and this time they same its made of 1095 steel? ( www.swordsoftheeast.com/browsepr ... atana.HTML ) So whats the story there? How am i suppose to know if this sword is truly the result of a tradition sword smithing of high carbon steel wrapped around lower carbon steel, or just a mono-steel 1095 blade? I look at the photos and the hamon is weak.... So Im stuck...credit card in hand, lots of recommendations, and yet Im not even sure what the sword story is?.... and then I look at the crappy photos, and how weak the hamon seems to me to be.... and I just sit here looking at the photos and trying to make a guess........
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Post by chopper on Mar 14, 2012 1:45:27 GMT
Try these. Dont know what has been suggested to you but here are two. www.ebay.com.au/itm/FUNCTIONAL-L ... 3f14a3302d Huawei has a pretty good reputation. This is T-10 folded tool steel. T-10 is good stuff. The hamon may not be flashy enough for you though. Huawei can custom forge a blade to your specs but it may take a while to get. However they have issues with communication if you pester them. I have two of their swords, which were already made and I love them. www.swordnarmory.com/4-000-Layer ... 3301rd.htm Munetoshi has a good reputtion. 1065 carbon steel with 1040 steel core. It has a pretty nice hamon and would be a good sword to customize. I can understand where you are coming from. Sometimes it takes me weeks of reasurch before I will order one. Im not familiar with the Tiger. Musashi makes decent swords, however they are light cutters. Even with the contradicting information you are looking at 1045 to 1060. Sometimes I have to make a edjucated guess and roll the dice.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 14, 2012 1:51:55 GMT
LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT!
Credit card at the ready..............
Just one more thing has to happen... (At this point in the story, someone chimes in and informs me that that sword in not in stock, the company is bankrupt, the Saya is pink....or it's known to bend like a noodle)
I have to let my team of advisors all speak their minds...but my fingers are crossed...
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Post by chopper on Mar 14, 2012 2:07:19 GMT
Glad you like it. In my experience, Jackie's (owner) communication has been great when buying a sword that is already made. He will even change the ito color and fittings if you ask. I enven got him to make longer tsukas for both of mine. Shipping from China was pretty quick too. Read through this thread before you order. People have expressed different opinions about Huawei. I have pics up of my sword there. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7182
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Post by Chinook Kaze on Mar 14, 2012 2:09:16 GMT
Huawei has a pretty good reputation for the quality of their product and good workmanship and value for the buck. Their blades have established a good rep. It seems that shipping is pretty quick for their pre-built products. You're not going to be able to pick up the pone and call them and e-mail communication can be spotty with the Chinese e-bay vendors. All that said, I'll bet you will be happy with making this sword your choice. Best of luck!
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Post by Maynar on Mar 14, 2012 2:10:56 GMT
Some folks have had problems in the past with Hua Wei, and I believe rightly so in individual cases. Like Chopper, I own two Hua Wei swords and I think they're the bee's knees. If you're ordering a stock, already-made sword, you shouldn't have any problems. I certainly did not. Hope it works out for you.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 14, 2012 2:27:35 GMT
Well, why didnt you post this info in your other thread where a lot of us are trying to help you out?
Never trust a photo hamon too much, they give you an idea but never the full picture, and odds are thats not the actual sword they will send you. They have a bunch of swords, and only take a picture of one. jhart has it right, as you see my suggestions were really lacking on the fittings aspect, but they have quality and price. If they turned out to be 1010 steel I would not care because I have put them through their paces. KC's are plain with good fittings, quality workmanship and handle like a dream. I dont know what you might have done that had 5160 leave a bad taste in your mouth, but their 5160 blades rock. They are not indestructable as my unpracticed buddy set both blades, But I put the set blade through a double roll like butter. The ronins nearly survived his form, the katana took a very mild set. You have to actually know what you are looking for to see the set it took. As also mentioned, I would avoid forge folded unless its a deal in the classifieds. I owned a forge folded musashi, and it was decent. But to be frank, I would have been better off to purchase 2 of the $80 monosteel ones and save myself 20 bucks. Though I saw another review where the person got an elite line musashi and it appeared to be a good deal.
Put the credit card back in your wallet, dont let the money burn a hole. If you have to have a sword that bad, blow $80 on a musashi, cheap, let your friends cut with it to save your main blades and a good reference point for a future purchases. You would probably be better off to just continue your research. Click on my name and go through my posts, I have a couple reviews out there (one of which on a high end musashi you would probably find very helpful) and some more info you can use in your search.
Onto the sword, unwaisted tsuka, Ill bet you a musashi the hamon is etched (not fake, but acid enhanced) the finish appears rough but even. All swords mentioned to you in your other thread have mei on the nakago. The musashi's even have serial numbers, the KC have the fitting numbers on them. pretty much every part has the same number stamped somewhere including the tsuka. Each is very obviously fitted to the specific sword when you take it apart. While I am no expert, I have heard that too many folds tend to make the metal more brittle, and 10 folds is a decent number most forges can pull off consistently. To put the silk in perspective, it costs about me about $50 bucks for enough to do a katana handle, Sageo, about $100. Im sure they can get a deal on the silk in bulk, but not that good of a deal. Which makes me question how good the silk really is
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 14, 2012 2:28:45 GMT
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Post by chopper on Mar 14, 2012 2:36:49 GMT
I also agree. 5160 is some good steel. My main cutting sword is 5160. I got it because of it's durability.
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