|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 14:51:02 GMT
What sword do you suggest?
Here we go with the facts of life for my sword search.
Im a student of the sword for about the last 10 years in both Japanese Kendo and now Korean Kumdo. I have reached the rank where a sword is something I need to get so as to begin the next stage of my sword art - "Cutting"
My sword has to be a very good example of a Katana as it will be taken apart in class for teaching how to clean/oil/review a sword.
It would be nice if my sword had something interesting on the tang where a signature would be on a real Japanese katana....it's not a deal breaker, but it would be nice.
My Budget?......is $300.00 up to $400.00for the whole package.
It would help me a great deal if the sword was from a well known and trusted maker, as my sword teacher will have to be 110% sure of the quality of my sword before I can bring it in the door of the gym.
The "Wow!" i speak of?.....Im not sure,,,perhaps a fancy Saya, or a folded steel blade....or perhaps a blade composed of 2 or 3 different types of steel?
Im a bladesmith myself in my free time. I have made lots of forged hunting knives, and so Im expected to have that little "extra" that most guys would not spring the ca$h for.......
Yes, I have looked at the SBG ideas, but the wait is killing me, and I wouldnt mind seeing what you guys were thinking too....
Lets hear your ideas!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 13, 2012 15:46:08 GMT
Well the SBG wait should be about up if you want that route. Though for $80 to $320 (by $320 I mean $80 times 4). These first 2 I personally own: Musashi Sukashi katana with bo-hi. I practice with it daily. Everything worked a bit loose quick, then slowed down a lot. Something I would expect with ANY sword that gets swung daily. Feels allright and cuts allright. www.swordnarmory.com/Musashi-Han ... h-5010.htm Musashi Great Wave katana without bo-hi. It is in the daily practice rotation. Helping to really dial in my edge alignment even more due to the more quiet tachikazi. It has been snug from the start, but hasnt been in rotation enough to have loosened up. I have not cut with it, but with the numerous musashi's I have already cut with, I would expect it to cut decent. www.swordnarmory.com/Handmade-Mu ... -146bd.htm These next two are planned purchases for me, I have not used them yet: Musashi Oni no bo-hi blade, I expect it to just be the great wave in different fittings. www.swordnarmory.com/Handmade-On ... -147rd.htm Musashi Samuri sword 1060, Same blade as the sukashi and numerous other musashi's, just different fittings. www.swordnarmory.com/Handmade-Mu ... 1097bk.htm Of course I would advice taking a moment to check them out Before taking them to the dojo. And for your little extra, you either have swords for many people to learn with and experience, or you will still have a wad of cash left in your wallet. Either one are great extra's. The first one has the added bonus, of if someone else messes up its a lot less care and worry because its not a $400 sword they just bent. They have "SAM SUNG" kanji and a serial number on the nakago. I also have a thread with a destructive test of one of the musashi DH line with bo-hi, in case the general durability is in question. Of course they are still very cheap chinese swords, the fittings and fit should be thoroughly inspected upon arrival. SnA appears to have good customer service should a sword not meet your safety requirements. Just my 2 cents knowing you are looking for an example sword for yourself and new learners to actually cut with.
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 13, 2012 15:51:28 GMT
Yep, this thread might be better for getting more opinions, here is the same answer that I wrote on that last thread. My info on production swords might be bit outdated but maybe I can still give you few hints, I still browse them every now and then. Are you planning on cutting in Kendo or Kumdo? Just asking because I don't know much about Korean martial arts and if they use their own swords in cutting instead of katana? It's really hard to recommend a sword since everyone has their own taste of what they like. But as you said you liked flashy swords I'll try my best to provide some that fit in your pricerange. Then some sword with less flash but I can vouch for their quality. For starters here is a folded katana from Sinosword, good thing about these new chinese forges is the fact that you can customize everything you like, so any parts you don't like you can change it, they'll even make you a blade fit to your measurements: www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... -wakizashi Here is another chinese forge that also allows you to customize if you contact mr. Zhang. I think that this sword might be something you'll like. www.zhisword.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=755 I guess you don't like plain koshirae and this is bit above your budget but I could recommend 1095 hybrid line from Dynasty Forge. Or if you are fine with no hamon then DF Musha line would fit you as well (fits nicely into your budget). Dynasty Forge has one of the best tsuka shapes in low budget swords. Different variations of Paul Chen PPK, fit your budget, although not being anything flashy it's a good overall sword. Tsuka shape is bit thick and big, but I guess it's average in budget swords. I owned one early gen PPK many years ago and it had mei on nakago, don't know if that's typical to Paul Chen swords? That old gen PPK has bad imitation leather ito and really long tsuka so I'd recommend newer models. Sometimes PC Shinto (old model) can be had at pretty good price too. Then there is Hanwei Raptor-series, nothing fancy but good cutters. Guess I don't know anything about 90% of the current ebay-sellers. And there are so many new sword companies but this will at least get you started. New maker Roninkatana has had lots of positive feedback and they seem to be good swords.
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 16:00:13 GMT
Thanks for the links,,,I went to this one www.sinosword.com/JapaneseProduc ... r=TZ091217 to check on how to order their sword and I ran smack into a type of steel i have never heard of before and need your advice... The steel was called "1095" I dont know anything about this steel? I know that 1045 steel in like a spring on a truck. and 1060 steel is in a lot of katana and is a good steel 1080 steel in in the katana that are a bit more money. but what is the story with 1095?
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 13, 2012 16:06:22 GMT
I'm not good with metallurgy but I believe that it has 0,95% of carbon, so it's high carbon steel. 1095 is usual steel type found in many katana by different makers. It also has certain amounts of different materials which I do not have knowledge of but it's good steel. It's high in hardness and good for making sharp objects.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 13, 2012 16:16:20 GMT
1095 has even more carbon and has more hardness. I think its about as hard as you would want for an general purpose sword. More hardness is less toughness.
My Hanwei Practical XL has mei on the tang and so do the ronin's, the ronins feel quite good. HuaWei also makes a nice blade (at least the custom bare blade I purchased from the forums). KC's handle great, have signature on the nakago and fit the price range. pause for laughter at how i mixed up words in the natural course of typing. Bit plain jane out of the box, great tsuka shape and is a base for many custom jobs.
If interested in the Practical XL it will be up in the classifieds when I get off my lazy behind and get the handle re-wrapped, I will also post up a thread for the work I did to it. It should make a stout light duty cutter due to the width & low (maybe no) niku. Frankly, I like my Ronin KC & Musashi's better than it. The only reason I purchased it was for the menuki to use on my KC waki to make a matching daisho with the wrap I did on the KC katana.
My formal opinion is still up in my first post. Just because they are low cost, and in a dojo with beginners learning on them taking them apart and cutting. Mistakes wont create the same sinking gut feeling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 16:26:25 GMT
The short story is 1095 has a higher carbon content. There's a pile of steel varieties being used today to make swords. Kris Cutlery uses 5160 spring steel - touted as "tough stuff" when tempered well. 1045 is somewhat on the low end of sword steels. Edge roll, tip bend or collapse happens with 1045. 1060 is slightly harder and tougher. Ronin Katana uses it in the Dojo Pro line. 1070 - 1075 = again slightly tougher, stronger, harder, better edge retention. Rick Barrett uses this steel on his non-folded, non tamahagane swords. He torture tested his swords on 55 gal steel drums until he got the results he wanted. Barrel rim cutting, side wall piercing, side wall slicing with no blade damage. 1080- just another notch up in carbon content. 1095 - same thing - higher carbon content = harder edge though this steel hardened would chip versus roll the edge. T-10 - tool steel or high speed steel. What many Chinese forges are using today. Shows a prominent hamon. Can be brittle and prone to chipping. Huawei is an example. 9260 - high silicon spring steel. Cheness uses this steel. Touted as tougher than dried gorilla snot! Doesn't show a hamon as well as some others. Like I said these are the synopses of the steels not the whole enchilada with all the pros, cons, elements contents etc... cost is a factor with each steel type. 1045 being cheaper than 1095 and so forth. HTH Steve-o PS- a few of the Chinese forge made folded steel blades are etched to show the folds and look bad and non traditional. The pattern is WAY too obvious. 2 or 3 types of steels for a laminated blade would be nice and a plus if done correctly.
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 16:33:12 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 13, 2012 16:46:43 GMT
As Sinosword works on order basis there are no set prices. You will have to send them a sword for quote. I sent some really specific specifications for them, just get an idea for their custom prices. And I asked quote for one of their "regular" options for comparison. I guess if I remember correctly one of their folded swords was 390$ shipped to Finland. I think their prices are good as even the "crazy stuff" I asked quotes for fell within reasonable pricerange.
|
|
|
Post by Elheru Aran on Mar 13, 2012 17:02:45 GMT
Before buying anything...
You're practicing in a dojo, right? I strongly suggest talking to your sensei first and seeing what he/she recommends you look into, if you haven't already. Some sensei can be quite picky about what their students bring in, and you don't want to spend a heap of cash on a sword only to have the sensei tell you it's no good. That will give you some idea of the parameters you need to work within.
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 17:14:32 GMT
Oh yes, and I have been told to be careful, and to try to stick to a brand of sword that has a proven line of quality. But Im free to pick out the sword...there is no suggestion of a brand, other than to make sure it has a real tang and not just a welded stick. and that its safe.
the truth is that none of us know all that much, and I get a lot of advice that turns out to be.........
and so i am seeking you guy's ideas on a real good sword in the $300 to $400 price range that looks good, and has something extra about it....like its folded...has a real hamon and not any acid etched crap....and it would be nice to have something on the tang written to show others...
a Saya that is well made would also be nice....
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 18:45:08 GMT
The budget > $400.00 Lets hear what you guys think of this idea... Rather than trying to find a sword for $400.00 while still new to cutting and likely to make a few errors with my first sword....How about this... get 2 swords for that cash? Here is my first contender... www.handmadesword.com/117l.htmland then with that a beater www.handmadesword.com/264.html Your views? Please rip them apart and save me from making a mistake...
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 19:10:42 GMT
What I'm so busy struggling with is the idea that I want a little "Wow!" with my sword.
I need something thats different...something that perhaps the other guys would not have thought of doing. In the above links I am suggesting an idea that for the same cash, (actually less cash) that I was planning on spending I can get 2 swords that seem to work as a team and get me what im seeking.
The Red and Black Saya on both matches, and gives me the "Wow!" from across the room that I seek.
The cheaper sword has a great hamon The other sword has a folded blade.
It seems like this is a good fit for my goals...
My only question now if for you guys who know a LOT, LOT more than i do about sword stuff...Do you guys find some monster flaws in this idea and these swords?
Again thanks for all the members of this forum that have taken the time to deal with my question, I swear to God I will name my first born after all of you....
|
|
George
Member
Banned
Posts: 1,899
|
Post by George on Mar 13, 2012 19:44:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 13, 2012 19:51:05 GMT
Well I can rip them a bit... There is a lot to improve on these swords, I haven't looked swords in this pricerange much, so my comparison points may be bit too high.
I am very nit-picky when it comes to swords and maybe I cling even to minor details that most would just ignore. The first thing on those both links that I noticed are the low quality seppa. Now while this is very minor thing, it immidiately gives an idea where the maker cuts corners.
Don't know if it's my eyes but it seems that the tsuka (shape, angle etc.) if bit off on both swords but I guess that this is a common issue on low-end production swords. If you look pics of the tsuka, the ito is not flush with fuchi and kashira (the cheaper model has better tsuka in my mind). Based on estimate I'd say the kurikata is placed way too low on the saya.
As for the blade, kissaki on both swords seems to be very bad. Based on the kissaki picture I would guess latter one has wire-brushed hamon but on other pictures it looks real. And that folded blade just looks really bad to my eye, like it says it has 1024 layers, resulting in very loose grain.
These are just some points that can be said on quick glimpse of those pictures on the website. And I always tend to think that the seller/manufacturer will take pics that show the sword in good light as possible. There is also some marketing speech, as should always be expected. I would recommend investing the whole budget on one good sword. As you practice in a dojo, do you have any size (or other) requirements for the sword?
|
|
|
Post by Chinook Kaze on Mar 13, 2012 20:09:35 GMT
Your enthusiasm for a new Shinken is admirable and most folks here can appreciate wanting a new balde and wanting to get the most for your buck. I appreciate that you want something a bit unique, something that is "you." You can get the custom colors you are looking for in the ito and saya with one of the good semi-custom brands you have been refered to: Huawei and Sino Sword. The down side there is you will have to wait, likely 30-60 days for something semi-custom.
The other suggestions you are getting are for very good, proven blade and koshirae packages from reputable, respected vendors, ie. Ronin, Hanwei, Kris, Munetoshi. The folks that are suggesting these to you are doing you a favor by trying to steer you to a sword that will give you good value and years of trouble free use and that have blades that have proven themselves, over and over again in both Dojo and informal cutting use.
I would suggest you do a little research and loook for reviews on Hand Made Sword for their product before you jump into that pond.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 13, 2012 20:23:52 GMT
I'm going to outright say not to get the Handmade ones. I've only ever heard ill about them. For $200 you could get
Two Ronin Dojos from Ronin Katana.
Two Munetoshi Light Cutters, or their TH T8 swords, or their Mokko T10 blades, or their Korean-style blades.
You could get two Cheness 1060 Mokko katanas.
You could really get two of any of these, as they are all under $200 and are well made.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 13, 2012 21:25:52 GMT
not to mention, the swords you picked, are out of stock.
a definate +2 for most of that list. I really did not like my munetoshi wakizashi, but it is but one blade in their lineup.
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 21:44:38 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 13, 2012 21:59:00 GMT
Hanwei does etch their hamons, but only to enhance an already existing one. It is not difficult to remove the "frosty" looking etch, just some Metal Glo or Mothers Mag polish paste. If I recall correctly, the Raptor series is the only line that Hanwei produces that are TH, and therefore don't have hamons.
|
|