|
Post by Pogo4321 on Feb 18, 2012 17:31:35 GMT
Why do so many sabers have a six pointed star on them?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 18, 2012 18:52:09 GMT
Because British swordmaker James Wilkerson was visited by space aliens who told him that if he put their sign on his swords they would never break when cutting wedding cakes. :mrgreen:
( Don't like that answer? It's sorta right. This particular proof mark was in fact a promotional gimmick first used by Wilkerson to guarantee that his sword really weren't like his competitors. Yadda, yadda, yadda. SO his competitors just went ahead and put the same proof mark on theirs. Blame the masons; oh yeah, don't forget the aliens. Can't get on the History Channel anymore without aliens.... :roll: :lol: )
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Feb 18, 2012 18:58:46 GMT
After the magic of the running wolf of Passau wore off . . . .
|
|
|
Post by Pogo4321 on Feb 18, 2012 20:24:28 GMT
Aliens!! Of course!
And here I thought it had to do with the Elders of Zion.
|
|
|
Post by the_antposse on Feb 25, 2012 13:42:55 GMT
Hi Pogo! Try googeling "Star of Damascus"! For reference though I would accept Dave's definition. With his knowledge and extended research into the saber, I'm sure he's come across the facts about that star. It is a nice touch and lends some authority to the blades. I own a couple of swords with the brass slug, or whatever its called, in the blade. One which I purchased from Weapon Edge, is an 1897 Infantry Officers Sword, and the brass "proved" button fell out of it. It turned out to be a very thin piece of brass cut out of a sheet of said material stamped with the word Proved in a circle and the letter "T." in the middle. I have yet to find a glue that will hold it in place, not even super glue works. I also have a 1902 US Army sword made in Germany with that button in it. I have no idea how they got that button in that little hole....it looks like its edge is overlapped by the blade material but that can't be so I've quit wasting mental effort about it.
|
|
guyc
Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by guyc on Feb 27, 2012 19:38:28 GMT
It is not any type of star. It is a double triangle. This is a quote from Robert Wilkinson -Latham on another forum:
"It was in fact what it was - a double triangle. The triangle is the strongest geometric shape so double that to emphasise Henry Wilkinson 'brutal' blade testing machine built in 1844 and mentioned in the 1st Edition of Observations on Swords."
|
|
|
Post by the_antposse on Feb 27, 2012 22:47:45 GMT
Hello guyc! Thanks for that info....I've read some of his post on SFI forum from time to time but I missed that one. FINALY we get to put this thing to rest, we have a definitive statement from one of the Wilkinson family members themselves....outstanding! CW
|
|
Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
|
Post by Luka on Feb 28, 2012 21:37:19 GMT
Yes, but it is also a David's star, important jewish symbol...
|
|
|
Post by the_antposse on Feb 28, 2012 22:25:18 GMT
The eye of the beholder!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 23:03:00 GMT
Anyone familiar with the Magen David should easily see the difference between the shield and the star on swords.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 10:03:38 GMT
It's not the "Star of David"!!! The hexagram is an ancient symbol that was taken up by the Jews quite late in the 12th century, before that they used the symbol of the menorah. The hexagram is an ancient alchemical symbol that represents the fusion of the four elements - earth, air, firae and water in perfect harmony. When you superimpose the four alchemical symbols for these over one another, you get a hexagram. It was most likely adopted by the Jews because it was a magickal symbol used on their from medieval Jewish protective amulets (segulot) around the 11th to 13th century. Most likely quite separate from the alchemical symbol, the history of the two triangles as proof marks dates back to the ancient Persians who perfected Damascus steel and stamped it with this symbol. This was reportedly encountered by Alexander the Great three centuries before Christ. From the Wikipedia article on Hexagrams ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagram#Usage_by_Jews): "A six-point interlocking triangles has been used for thousands of years as an indication a sword was made, and "proved," in the Damascus area of the Middle East. Still today, it is a required "proved" mark on all official UK and United States military swords though the blades themselves no longer come from the Middle East" And from those not up on their history, the ancient Persians became modern day Iran, so we can attribute the damascus steel proof marks to these peoples! Just giving credit to the right parties, not the late adopters!
|
|
|
Post by somewhat on Feb 29, 2012 12:28:46 GMT
Eh, could all just be hype though. I haven't heard/seen any ancient swords with these proof marks. Not gonna lie, sounds sketchy....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 13:01:25 GMT
Really? It's not a hype! :lol: From USNA-Net Reference on Navy and Marine Corps SWORDS ( www.usna.org/swords.html) Frequently Asked Questions Q. Why is the Star of David on the Navy Officer's sword?
That it is not the Star of David. It is the Star of Damascus, the symbol of world renowned steel and sword craftsmen. These craftsmen used two triangles joined together as a sign of their sword making guild which became know as the Star of Damascus. This symbol means the sword was fashioned with Damascus steel and over 1,000 years of craftsmanship.Here's more from www.militarysabers.com/military- ... -star.html Six-pointed star on U.S. swords
First, the star is not a Star of David because it is geometrically different. The Star of David does not consist of two triangles combined together, but rather two, separate, interlocking triangles (which, in recent history, and often when displayed in one-color designs, usually does appear to be two triangles combined together). We cannot absolutely confirm the history of the star; however, we do know that the blade specifications for both the U.S. and British military swords require the six-pointed star with the word "Proved" etched on the blade. As best we can tell, the specification for the six-pointed star is historical in nature and was likely used to signify that the blade was manufactured using the Damascus steel method. Today, there is no requirement for Damascus steel blades; however, the six-pointed "Proved" star is required in the etch to signify that the blade meets the current military specifications. Even this use has lost its meaning, however, since replica swords intended only for wall-mounting incorrectly bear the symbol. Damascus steel was perfected by the Persians and was reportedly encountered by Alexander the Great three centuries before Christ. The Persians used the six-pointed star during these non-modern times. The Persian blade-making process of folding the steel many times - even hundreds of times - to layer the steel resulted in extremely tough blades with both strength and resilience. The term "Damascus steel" came from western traders first encountering the steel in Damascus...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 13:12:18 GMT
Also found this:
According to historian Ken Smith-Christmas, a curator at the Marine Corps Air-Ground Museum, Quantico,Va., the six-pointed star on the swords was originally a guild proof called the "Star of Damascus," an Eastern mark of distinction found on swords of high-quality workmanship. Over the years, the marking disappeared on blades. Museum correspondence with sword makers such as Wilkinson and N. S. Meyers indicates manufacturers, primarily British, have reintroduced that marking on swords.
|
|
|
Post by Pogo4321 on Mar 1, 2012 3:42:44 GMT
|
|