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Post by Riv Re on Feb 2, 2012 6:06:40 GMT
Hey SBG! I have a [slightly strange] archery question. I'm a writer, and I'm in middle of working on an archery scene. I was hoping some of the awesome people here could spare a second to share some wisdom!
The details: The story takes place in a medieval-era, so weaponry is kind of, well, old. The archer is a practiced shot (the "Robin Hood" type, with infallible bow skills) and he's positioned up on a hill, with a bow that's maybe 3 1/2 to 4 feet long (can be changed, if necessary. It's not specified, but it's implied that he's using something semi-portable). He's shooting down a hill at a group of soldiers.
My question: how far away can I put him that's plausible, and will still make him able to deal a soldier a fatal blow? He's probably shooting several arrows in quick succession. (I read on Wikipedia that shooting multiple arrows can be exhausting. Is that right?)
(The reason I need a distance: The archer, and his group of followers that are also pretty decent bowmen, are hiding from the soldiers that they're about to kill, and I need a good distance that will keep them hidden.)
Thanks so much!
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 2, 2012 6:25:13 GMT
First, in regards to the size of the bow, is this a fantasy novel, or a historical fiction? If it's historical, western Europe/the UK pretty much had the longbow, and cross bows. No real "potable option", though I don't think a long bow wouldn't be any more difficult to move through the woods with than a walking stick or spear. If it's fantasy, you could give him a composite bow, more common to eastern Europe/Asia which is shorter and was usually intended for use on horseback.
It is tiring to try and shoot a lot of arrows rapidly, but it's not going to make you unable to fight or anything. In regards to distance I'd probably say 35-40 yards max for realism, you could push it out to 60-70 yards if you really want him to be a godlike marksman. To my understanding the general rule for hunting with a bow is 30 yards or less to help ensure a humane kill and not a wounding hit on the animal.
If you're good at hiding/camouflage you could be 3 feet from someone without them seeing you. :lol:
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Feb 2, 2012 6:45:52 GMT
if your characters shooting at a mass of soldiers i would open the range up from 100 yards up to nearer 200,as long as they're unarmoured you would still see effective disabling wounds,if they're armoured or your character is shooting for accuracy or specific body parts you'll need to be around 50 yards maximum 30 would be better
people didn't worry about humane kills when using the longbow (or any bow against enemies) if it hits and penetrates then that person is for all intensive purposes either out of the fight or dead
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Post by ineffableone on Feb 2, 2012 6:51:57 GMT
This is a good resource for Medieval Bow and Arrow www.castles.me.uk/bow-and-arrow.htmNote the range of armor piercing arrow from a Medieval Short Bow was 275 yards. That of course is an unaimed arcing flight. If you want an aimed shot from your archer you get dramaticly closer. 50 yards would be the max I would say shooting down hill for a decent archer to aim properly.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Feb 2, 2012 6:55:10 GMT
Yup.. you look at a bodkin or other arrow types.. 'Grazing' or 'flesh wound' or not.. The sucker hits any of your flesh in anything more than a nick and you're not going to be doing much, odds are you'll be in screaming pain and with how I've heard longbows described, you'd likely get hit somewhere from the thigh to throat area. Now, a composite type bow, that's a different animal, to me at least. I have no experience with longbows, but a composite, to me, would fire much quicker. and, depending on bows used, possibly harder maybe. And that type of bow you could move and shoot with, if ya have to.
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Post by ineffableone on Feb 2, 2012 7:02:38 GMT
As for shooting several arrows in succession a good archer can shoot 5-15 arrows per minute depending upon bow, quiver placement etc.
Check out this kid fast shooting with a mongolian recurve
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 2, 2012 7:58:26 GMT
That's the kind of bow I was referring to by composite. Pretty interesting bows. Shame that guy stopped making videos.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Feb 2, 2012 15:21:11 GMT
Byron Ferguson can hit a balloon at 200 yards with his longbow, widely celebrated as one of the (if not the) best traditional archers since Howard Hill....The length of your bow is fairly unrealistic (as others have pointed out). I would put it at 5 feet at the smallest. Even in a fantasy setting a composite bow would seem out of place, but as your story clearly you could get away with it if it's written well and not "well he just sort of has this bow for no particular reason." A more 'traditional' bow wouldn't need any explanation, however.
You could shoot quite a bit farther than 200 yards, certainly, and still be accurate enough to hurt someone in a group of soldiers. I would say for the sake of shooting confidently, 200 yards would be an outer limit.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Feb 2, 2012 15:46:11 GMT
This. If you're set on a horse bow (recurve bow generally about 55" long when strung; a composite bow is just a bow that's made up of several different kinds of wood, so it could refer to a longbow, as well), your best bet on why the character has the bow would be either personal preference, i.e., he prefers something shorter because he spends a great deal of time in heavily wooded areas where the shorter length is more useful than a 6' longbow, or cultural, i.e., he grew up shooting a horse bow because that's what his people shoot, so he sees no reason to change (it's similar in thought to Matrim Cauthon from The Wheel of Time, who grew up in the Two Rivers and and grew up shooting a Two Rivers longbow, considers any bow not a Two Rivers bow to be inferior, though not without just cause). A little off topic, I know, but it's the little things that count in writing.
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 2, 2012 20:05:31 GMT
Mmmm, no. Multiple woods is a laminate bow, composite bows are made of of several different materials. Wood, leather, sinew, and bone or horn usually. The only type of bow I know of that can be accurately referred to as a composite bow are horse bows. The limbs are backed with sinew, the belly would have horn, whole limb wrapped in leather, and the siyahs( big things on the ends that the string attaches to) would have been bone or another piece of wood.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Feb 2, 2012 20:51:01 GMT
Tendrax has the right of it. Composite bows, 9/10 = horsebow. Laminates usually = regular re-curves and *some* longbows. At least from my admittedly limited experience of a few weeks shooting.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Feb 2, 2012 23:30:57 GMT
Ah! Thanks for that, Tendrax! I knew composite involved several different somethings, and I thought it was wood. Goes to show how much I remember anything archery related.
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 2, 2012 23:39:47 GMT
I suppose a modern laminate flat bow like mine, which is a wood core with fiberglass lamination could be tentatively classified as a composite, but most people would just call it laminate. The big thing in my mind, is understanding what someone means rather than the super technical classification. If someone refers to a composite bow, there is a 99% chance they're talking about a horse bow. Lol.
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Post by KaOsBlaKbLaDe on Feb 3, 2012 0:13:40 GMT
tendrax, your fiber over wood core bow is most definitely considered a "modern"composite bow. A composite bow is any bow made from laminations of dissimilar materials. Even a bow made from laminations of different wood would be considered composite by definition. Composite simply referrs to the construction methods in creating the bow, and materials used have nothing whatsoever to do with this classification. so for clarity, you're "wood laminate" bow, if made from different woods is most definitely a composite construction, simple composite, but composite nonetheless.
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 3, 2012 4:26:24 GMT
Right, but like I said, I'm not concerned with technical classifications. If someone comes up to you and says they just bought a composite bow, it's far far more likely that they're referring to a horse bow rather than a R/D longbow or laminate recurve. It's far more important in life to understand what people are talking about than getting hung up on technical details.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 5:04:49 GMT
realistic accuracy to hit a small target would be 30-50 yards
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Post by Ceebs on Feb 3, 2012 5:07:42 GMT
I love archery threads In answer to the OP it depends what kind of armour these opponents to your hero have as well as the arrow heads used. The latter will be affected by the former. Against un-armoured opponents you could be shooting at extreme range and wound or possibly kill. With range, an English Medieval War Bow with a draw weight above 100 pounds can shoot a heavy arrow fairly accurately over 200 yards. This would be increased somewhat if you are shooting downhill. Fatigue is also a problem. I can shoot up to 12 arrows a minute with my 110 pound bow however I can't keep that up for very long. This seems to be something that happens to all War Bow shooters. Edit to add: A small single stave bow the length the OP describes will have problems with range. Not so much if it's a composite.
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Post by Riv Re on Feb 3, 2012 5:43:09 GMT
Thanks so much for the help, everyone who commented! I got it covered, and will make sure that he uses a longbow. I really appreciate it!
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