Was a Jian Historicity used for Cutting?

I was just wondering as the jian seems very good at stabbing rather then slicing.

I would like some further reading perhaps on the web???

Thoughts??


Thanks :ugeek:

Are you asking if the Jian was ever capable of performing cutting? Or whether or not it was used in training?

Pardon my noobness to Chinese Swords. LOL

try han jian from jin-shi.... swordsage did a great review on this sword. i believe also Paul himself did as well. any sword can be used for cutting. even a rapier.... question is, are u refering to cutting completely tru a 3" target such as a mat or an arm in combat. maybe not a rapier but definitely a jian. some folks think of jian as cheap arse wushu blades... but even a commonly referred as scholar sword can cut like that. i have a jin-shi jian production model which is size and weight of scholar sword and it cuts targets fine..

it just so happens that in taiji jianfa, that (at least my style) you do not have to chop off an arm pr leg to completely dispatch an opponent. a severed major artery is sufficient.

as for general target cutting, it does not matter if it is historic or not... as long as the sword you possess can handle it, it is extremely fun. no to mention the focusing on your forms is very soothing and calming. most folks not into swordsmanship think of it as violent, but i have found it to be relaxing to perform cutting exercises as well as jianfa forms practice.
... playnext=1

This. One thing I've seen quite a few people say (not on here, mind) when a sword fails to cut all the way through a mat with ease is "well, maybe his edge alignment was off" or "the sword wasn't that sharp" or even "that's not a very good sword if it can't sail through mats", all the while not realizing that even if you only cut halfway through a 3" mat, that means you'd cut halfway through an opponent's arm. All the way off, half off, either way, he's disarmed and no longer much of a threat, particularly if you get his weapon arm; few people are as good with their weak hand as they are with their strong hand. Same with the leg: you cut halfway through the leg, not only are you likely to hit the femoral artery, you will most definitely dispatch an opponent. I even once saw a comment on someone's cutting video, possibly Mike's, where the cutter attempted a zwerchhau and it only went about halfway through and someone said it was a poor cut. Why? Because it only went halfway through the mat? I look at it this way: halfway through the mat also means halfway through your head and the only result from that is dead. Just my two cents. :ugeek:

As seen in the video Sir Tre posted, jian sword technique has a lot of cutting slashing in it. Infact the sword forms I learned for jian I would say the majority of attacks were cutting not stabbing. Even many moves that look quite innocent were deadly when done properly since they were designed to cut arteries, tendons, and other weak spots. Do not be fooled by the appearance of softness in Tai Chi, it is a very deadly martial art.

As for if there are good cutting jian on the market, not many sadly. The functional Chinese weapon production market is small. Jin shi, Scott Rodell, and a few others are about it. I just recently saw a review of Traditional Filipino Weapons new jian, forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8977 it seems to be of decent cutting quality. Most jian out there on the market are either display pieces, or whippy wushu jian made for sword dance not cutting.

Arguably, there are a lot more cuts and slashes in jianfa than there are thrusts. Even many of the thrust-like motions in some forms are actually Cuo, or file, which is a push cut over tendons on this like the wrist and arms. Even the lightest of the jian is still primarily a cutting blade. Most people don't think of it that way, but it's a skillful precision cutter rather than a brute force cutter. Afterall as was said earlier, you cut halfway through a persons leg, they're pretty much dead man walking (or sitting more precisely).

Using the Yang system, there's:
Ci and Dian for the thrusts.
While in the Slash/cut family there's, Chou, Pi, Ge, Ji, Jiao, Beng and Jie for different types of cuts. (There are also the deflections, which can be used to cut or slash as well)

Other branches of jianfa include different thrusts and cuts as well. But there is always a heavy weighting towards the cut.

Ok I'm like a month late to this topic but here's my 2 cents. From my experience in learning chinese sword play, many cutting strikes, ranging from full arm arc swings to small wrist flick cuts, were used to disarm or disable the enemy, targetting areas suck as knees, ankles, wrists, arms, shoulders, eyes, face, etc. Ofcourse there are lethal cutting moves too like slicing the neck, chops to the head and carving swings to the mid section, but in my understanding if you wanted to take someone down without killing them cutting at non lethal spots would be the way to go.

Thrusts, in my limited understanding, are always executed with intent to kill. In my form thrusts are executed with explosive power (fajin) and targetting heart, intestines, neck, rib cage. There's one thrust that targets the knees in the form, but if I were to use in application I would just point the blade up a bit and skewer the groin (knee is a small target to stab into and the knee cap is hard....groin on the other hand....).

In summary I would say both cutting and thrusting were equally important functions of the jian, and that thrusts in general are executed with more lethal intent, while cuts are more to disarm and disable. Generally. And this is just pertaining to my style. Hope this is helpful.

It is sad, but at least there is still that repository of traditional Chinese Martial arts left. You know the true tradition is gone in China seeing the destruction of the Shaolin into just a tourist attraction and money making martial arts school. They don't even teach Shaolin Buddhism to the recruits just how to do the martial arts they call Shaolin now. To find real Shaolin you have to find those who left China a long time ago and pasted it down in its true form.