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Post by BlackDawn on Jan 25, 2012 3:03:50 GMT
Good evening everyone, I need some straight up opinions from any saber Lovers, i have been trying to decide on my first sword purchase ,Not using everyone else's lol.. and i am in love with sabers, specifically the early- Light cavalry sabers designs, there are so many types, its hard to choose from, so my question(s) is for a suggestion on a saber, I am trying to get as close to my preferences as i can. My background/ some stats: I am 5' 8, 137 lbs , average hands, 4 year Ex-Fencer, also i am an active member with SCA, Arma, my main experience is mainly with european rapier's, some euro- one hander broadswords. So here is what i'm after: #1. Spending budget of $200 range - capped $275 max #2. Light - med. weight ( for speed) #3. European #4. cutter for mats/ bottles #5. Close to Historicaly correct as i can but, leaning more torwards functional, Nothing from Fantasy, or the Far East I really love the look of Dragoon Sabers ( forgive me if i mis use some terms). I just want it to be eye pleasing as well a reliable working blade. ,and as much as i can achieve with my List of 5 points. I have been eyeing up the 1796 Light cavalry Saber at kult of athena www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... alry+Saber But i am open to any suggestions, advice , reviews, pros- cons, etc that anyone has to offer Thanks Kat~ |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 25, 2012 4:49:45 GMT
Hey Kat:
Some opinions on what's out there in restoration land for light cav sabers:
A light saber shouldn't weigh more than 2.25 lbs. Any heavier than that and you star having issues with PoBs that go too far down the blade and start making the weapon unweildy.
The Cold Steel '96 violates the principal. I know KoA advert says 2.2 lbs but mine weighed in at 2.6 lbs. The +7 inch PoB leads me to believe the later is still true. With the weight it is still a fair medium weight saber, but you won't be able to recover the blade as comfortably as you are want.
Options in price range:
Cold Steel or Windlass Shamshir: Although it is the Indo-Persian described version this is the Mother of the Euro Saber. Light, very fast slash and stab weapon. The mamalouk version came back from Egypt with Napoleon and set a trend. Marine corps officers still carry them today.
Windlass Revolutionary War Saber. Early 18th Century French. The numbers are right for this one. Basic saber form. Good length at 33 inches of blade. KoA good price.
Cold Steel Prussian 1852 pipeback saber: Cold Steel marketing is a crock. Always. What they are selling is the downsized 1876 type of this saber. That's good for the light minded consumer, as the original was a true Dragoon o fthe 2.5 lb nose heavy type.
The M1860 US light Cav saber. By 1858 the US Cav decided they had made a mistake ordering the Germanized French light cav saber dubbed, "ole wristbraker". The Ames Company proposed a downsizing of the sword that was accepted by the War Dept and the M1860 stayed in use until 1913.
Windlass has a fairly inexpensive version of this that is a very functional light to exercise. But thru their Atlanta Cutlery subdiv they also offer a commemorative M1906 that looks quite impressive. ( The M1906 was actually the last gov purchase of the M1860 that came with steel instead of brass hilts. )
Last but not least. For training purposes Hanwei offer up two training saber that are the forefathers of the orginal Olympic Saber: The Hutton and the Pecararo ( Also have the Raedelli ). The Hutton is a little heavier of blade. Both are approachable as sparring weapons. Think the Hutton is a HEMA used one.
FWIW
Cheers,
Dave Kelly
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Post by BlackDawn on Jan 25, 2012 14:27:26 GMT
Dave, Thank you very much sir, for your informative, light historical info, more than i had expected, Thanks for the heads up about the CS 1796 L cav saber. Although i originally stated i didnt consider Indo/ Persian types, after doing some searches, trolling for a review, Based upon your suggestion, i think i have decided on the Shamshir type for my First purchase in that class "Cold Steel' Persian Shamshir ' Kult of Athena' $199.95. Since i have only a modest price range for now, I love the look and the curvature of the blade, Thank you for pointing it out. I do have a question, by looking at the smooth grip, its obvious for extended useage sessions, i'll need to use my Gauntlets ( soft supple Leather ones ). Do you have any advice to prevent grip ( slippage, resulting in poor contact alignment )/ occuring problems using one with such a smooth surface , any tips to offer? Perhaps Have the grip redone in leather with risers, or a wire wrap maybe... Also, thanks for the idea, of a training blade, as i considered it as well, I'm buying the Hanwei Hutton training saber also , to get myself more conditioned before i start using the "Live Blade" for cutting sessions. On a final note, you sir have a Totally Fantasic collection, Ive never seen so many Sabers in one place before, Sweet armoury at your house... i was looking at the collection for over 1/2 hr. Absolutely Beautiful. For future refference i can see i'll be saving up to get into Better quality/ performance sabers, after i get my feet wet with this Shamshir. If you have the time i would love to see some more details/ impressions/ stats on your : CS Austria M1904 Enl Cav Saber in your collection. Thank you for your insight & feel free to send me your Gorgeous A&A 7 Ring Rapier when you tire of it  Enjoy your Day Kat~ |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 25, 2012 22:28:56 GMT
Hey a sport fencer, rapier user AND a sabrist :mrgreen: YOUR A GUMBA!!! :lol: Based on your query I thought the shamshir was a very good possibility. Sold mine because I thought it didn't fit with where the collection was going. But now I want to buy another one. You'll want to take it in hand before making any decisions. The turned pommel and 4 inch grip will give you a pretty secure grip. I always wear gauntlets and never noticed any control issues with it. There are some youtube vids of the cold steel in action. Like I said you'll be pleased. See the recent article on my pipeback sabers; the 1904 is in there. The other article is related to Heavy Dragoon Sabers at mid century. Tire of rapiers? :lol: You, me and Shadowhowler are real rapier haters Getting that 7 ring was a bloody miracle. Was shopping at Michael D Long's and stumbled into an auction fire sale on 6 A&A rapiers. I made an offer on three, but was told the 7 ring had just been sold to someone in germany. 4 days later the 7 ring reappeared online. Made a frantic email to MDL berating them for not contacting me and praying the rapier was still for sale. It was. Bought it and the Spanish bell together. Most certainly glad you have joined the forum. We are an underclass in the collectors world ( but unlike everybody else we can get real historic saber that are still functional).  Cheers, DKelly |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 25, 2012 22:48:30 GMT
I will point out that if the CS shamshir hilt is similar to the Windlass shamshir (same blade, different fittings) it may be very narrow by the cross guard; mine was much too thin for my grip to be honestly comfortable. The small grip also means that virtually ALL the weight is in the blade, unlike with a regular saber where the guard and grip do throw some weight back.
Either way, congratulations on your purchase and I hope you enjoy it and your membership here!
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LeMal
Member
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Post by LeMal on Jan 25, 2012 23:15:39 GMT
Will all due respect, Kat--no you won't.  Just because there is no better piece. I've been collecting and using for nearly thirty years. And the Shamshir is my #1 sword bar none. No single hand sword I have--including any Albion, Atrim and A&A I own, or any historical sabre I've ever owned or handled--feels or cuts better. However, that only makes me say Congratulations on your choice as well! |
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Post by u02rjs4 on Jan 25, 2012 23:20:15 GMT
I'm the bloke who bought Dave's CS shamshir. I can confirm its very agile compared to the 1796 which i love but is heavy. The grip can be slippy with bare hands and sweat but in leather gloves it feels very secure.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 25, 2012 23:33:53 GMT
What are you people tryin to do to me? I said I was going to try and control myself this year!! :lol:
( bloop,bloop, bleep, bloop...ring..." Kult of Athena can I help you?" :mrgreen: )
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Post by BlackDawn on Jan 26, 2012 0:19:49 GMT
Thank you all for the feedback, it is most appreciated, i placed my order for them both today.. i couldn't wait hehe.
Love it that the person who bought the Shamshir off dave made the post, all that did was make me more anxious, and as i asked about your ( Dave) further info on the Austria saber and the like, i found the article and loved it. Congrats on getting lucky Mr.Kelly with that 7 ring rapier, that was extremely nice timing. I think that i have smaller hands than a man the grip will work out just right when using my gauntlets. I see many more in my future, need to start working OT lol Thanks again everyone
Kat~
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LeMal
Member
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Post by LeMal on Jan 26, 2012 0:43:03 GMT
Bring you back--baaaack over to the Dark Side! :twisted: :lol:
(Hey, I'm there too. After I broke the pommel knob off mine and rehilted it radically I want another stock one. I keep looking at other/new swords--including that Austrian--but ... but ... must ... get ... another ... stock... Shamshir ... first...)
(The only thing protecting my budget being like the ass stuck between two bales of hay unable to decide until he starves! I can't decide on whether to go CS again or mix it up just a smidge with the Windlass.)
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 26, 2012 0:53:18 GMT
If you don't provide feedback here as soon as practicable we will NEVER speak to you again. ( Well, I mean, that might be a bit strong. We can always be bribed with pics and vids n stuff...shuffle, shuffle. OFF SWORDS AND FENCING, damnit. :shock: ) |
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Post by BlackDawn on Jan 26, 2012 5:23:13 GMT
I promise i will leave feedback for all, pic's etc, i'll see if my Gf can lend me her cam corder, but ya's will have to take it easy on me if i up a vid, since this is my first time using a saber LOL kidding, i won't get offended in fact i welcome pointers, and criticism, so i wouldnt want anyone to hold back, its how one learns, & thanks for the tip Elheru Aran i'll take note of it
Kat~
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jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
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Post by jhart06 on Jan 26, 2012 5:28:45 GMT
Saw this, thought about chiming in... Dave beat me to it.. *shakes fist* FOILED AGAIN! CURSE YOU DAVID KELLY!
You got a sound bank of advice and what looks like more than enough knowledge and gumption to see it through. I love shamshirs myself, so enjoy that!
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Post by S. Thomas on Jan 26, 2012 15:46:54 GMT
It`s my favourite one to handle, although the wire wrap digs into bare hands uncomfortably; deerskin gloves. The grip itself is also a bit thin in girth for my liking. You may find it likeable. Really pleasant to handle; very manageable. Good cutter judging from what little I`ve done with it. I suspect you`ve already perused the archived sword reviews. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/1860-cavalry-saber.htmlIt`s a bargain for a very real, solid, useable sabre. Kult of Athena still sells it for a bargain basement price. Sabre aficionados can pick up a nice cut rate cutter with this one. I adore the Weaponedge AN XI light cavalry sabre. CS sells this model, as well, billing it as the 1830 Napoleon sabre. Grip feels great in the hand. Also quite controllable. The stats for the CS model give it a grip length of 3 5/8". I like the feel of it just fine, and I have man hands. The butt of the grip fits into the heel of my hand nicely, making it feel more like an extension of my arm than any other sabre I have. Anthony DeLonghis uses this sabre in some of the CS sabre fighting instructional vids I`ve watched on youtube. I was quite apprehensive about shelling out more than $200 for a sword, but I`m very pleased with the AN XI. It`s now available at a much lower price from Historyrelics. I`m told the CS model is much more suited to cutting. Just my two penniä. |
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Feb 9, 2012 3:31:16 GMT
Plenty of (hopefully ex-post facto) justifications for including the shamshir in the collection. a.) It was exceedingly popular (as an "Armenian" or "fiddleback" saber) among the Polish gentry of the 16th and 17th century, and of course we know of the whole Polish connection to the Napoleonic wars; b.) Boney himself brought back the fashion when returning from Egypt; and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Napol ... Gerome.jpg c.) The fashion then migrated over to Perfidious Albion thanks to . . . Wellesley himself. www.oakeshott.org/1831art.html |
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Post by Freebooter on Feb 14, 2012 2:21:20 GMT
I love sabres or anything with curved blades. But my two faves are the U.S. 1860 Lt Cav Sabre and MRL's Shamshir/Scimitar. The latter is just like some of the guys said, just so light and quick. I believe it would be a deadly sword in someone's hand. The 1860 I like because while it too is pretty well balanced and "swingable" and also good for thrusts, I love the hand protection given by the brass guard. Both of these are beautiful swords.
And I am not sure wht they cost now, but when I got my 1860 Lt. cav Sabre from MRL it was only $98.00. You can't beat that!
Freebooter
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Enjoy your Day
