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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 23:05:00 GMT
Ok well as my handle states I'm a noob to the sword world. I did martial arts for many years but they were Korean and swords were not among our weapons for our training. So I know little else besides the fact that swords are awesome, deadly, beautiful, there are many different types of swords from hundreds of cultures and peoples and have been used for different purposes over the years.
So I've had this sword ever since a family friend gave it to me as a kid. Funny story, he moved into a new house in the woods of upstate NY, very much gun-nut territory, and in the process of cleaning his new house found some interesting things. While watching TV one night he dropped the remote under the couch. Reaching down under the couch he found what he thought was the remote and pulled out a sword. A bit overwhelmed by this he held on to it and decided it'd be better to give to a 13 year old kid than to hang on to it himself.
Now, many years later I decided to look the sword up online to see what it was and when it was from. When the friend gave me the sword neither he nor my father thought much of it, assuming it was some replica or recent military cadet's sword bought at an army surplus store. What did I care? I was 13 and now had my own sword.
Upon doing some google research I've found that the sword is in the style of an eagle head pommel sword. It certainly has an eagle head, and looks much like other eagle head pommels with it's five ball guard and single bladed edge. It looks a bit like a cutlass... or what my noob imagination thinks of as a cutlass. Certainly has the look of a military sword. Possibly US. Different from the Eagle Head Pommel swords I found online, this one has a wooden grip instead of a bone grip.
There are no markings on the blade, hilt, or grip and no scabbard. See photos below.
I'm curious as to what this sword is and when it's from, and also its value, not that I'm looking to part with it necessarily.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 13:06:32 GMT
i'm no expert on this, but it kinda looks like an american officers dress sword, these kind of swords is still made today, so i don't think it would be worth very much. but don't take my word for this, i'm certainly no expert myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 23:12:34 GMT
Well you're right it definitely seems like a military sword. However, it's probably not modern as it's got a wooden handle, there's significant signs of age and it's not a current design.
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Post by HouShe on Jan 19, 2012 4:38:31 GMT
We're not really the experts here on this sort of blade. Give over at SFI a try, I'll PM the link to the proper board to do it in.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Jan 19, 2012 4:43:08 GMT
There are a few here I'd say are just as good as most of those on SFI. Dave Kelly would be one member here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 5:11:36 GMT
Well I tried to register over there and so far never received access. Swords are awesome. This one definitely has a story and is at least, I'd guess from the 50s or older. Definitely not a new design.
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Post by Wes on Jan 19, 2012 10:07:50 GMT
I haven't had any luck registering at SFI either. I wonder if an active member of that board might act as a liason for those of us wishing to join it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 23:55:02 GMT
That would be nice. On an unrelated sword note, but related to boards, I was on a hike once and found a crystal in the path. Was curious about it so I photographed it and found a rock forum and submitted it. Had an answer in like a day lol. Got in here pretty fast too. Still no answers tho lol
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 20, 2012 0:19:37 GMT
I only have one source at hand: H Peterson's, The American Sword.
The "beaded sword" or 5 ball spadroon was commonplace to the American Navy 1808-1816. It was also the official Army Infantry Officers sword 1821-1840.
Sorry, I'm not an expert in these. Does appear to be right for a US military sword.
By the way, how long is it; point to pommel and in blade length?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 1:51:28 GMT
Yeah for all the research I've done the "Eagle Head Pommel Sword" almost always comes up as an American sword. It's interesting that it's a 5-ball and an Eagle head too. From peened tang to point it's 37 .75" In blade length it's about 36" or so. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it I'd love to solve the mystery of the "Sword from under the couch" haha.
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Post by Tendrax on Jan 20, 2012 2:03:58 GMT
Those measurements can't be right. The grip is less than two inches long?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 2:51:24 GMT
Whoops! Quite right Tendrax! Yes the blade length is about 31" or so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 5:12:30 GMT
And still the mystery continues lol
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Post by Pogo4321 on Jan 21, 2012 17:57:05 GMT
Forget SFI. Take it over to My Armoury and post it there. You could also scour the albums and see if anything matches or comes close. Look at this thread--Glen Cleeton has a pic with a very similar sword: www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... c&start=22
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2012 6:47:22 GMT
Thanks for the tip Pogo! Here's the reply I got on My Armory:
This is a sword from the early 19th century and generally associated with the American market. The books regard this one assigned to Richard Bolton &Co from Birmingham England during at least that first decade. Bolton was a merchant, more than a maker and Like Ketland exported arms from several shops. This eagle head evolved from a type associated with a fellow named Thomas Bate, a silversmith and cutler. The E. Alexander Mowbray book on eagles lists this as the Bolton/upson eagle because a pair of brothers in America were great importing agents and retailers. the Tilte is The American Eagle Pommel Sword and sells at a decent price for a student of eagles (if interested).
I would put it to that timeline of roughly 1805. The wood handle is a bit less common than the pressed horn, bone or ivory grips. Some will place the dark grips as nco swords but because of its five ball manner, I would think not. The platoon leader nco swords are generally sabres in that time frame. The ring (which looks like it has been moved inboard of the guard) is sometimes regarded as "must be naval" but there is no absolute there either. There is also a chance that it may have been assembled from ready parts by a New England east coast cutler. That may explain the wood grip and the hilt may at one time have been silver plated.
If you have not already, approach any cleaning of the blade very gently, as there may be some decoration of it left under the rust. Do not scrub!! At least not until you are sure what you see. Some of these are found with broad etching like later methods but more often we see what was once fine needle etching with gilt and blue on the blade.
My own example of these is a spadroon like yours but with a bone grip and foliate gilt etching with no standard military motif. still, a sword meant for an American officer. I I also have a fairly large image bank of eagles and one quite like yours but with a horn (I think) grip. The blade decoration on some is quite extensive and other exaples at the top of the food chain
Treat it gently. It looks like it may have been mashed about at some point. It is still a mid three figure piece and an important piece of American history. past that though. Condition is everything and there is really no easy way to make it new. BY NRA standards, I would still list it as Very Good. It is not as common as a couple of other varieties such as the Ketland and Osborn types. I list these in my mind as the 3 Stooges.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 22, 2012 15:36:41 GMT
If nothing else gave it away, that last line surely says "Glenn C" in my book!
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