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Post by Johan Elder on Jan 7, 2012 18:17:23 GMT
Aaarrgghh. I just finished prettying up my EMSH, and when it was all put together, the guard was rotating a bit on the tang/blade. I made a leather 'washer' so that there would some more compression onto the guard from the grip assembly, and when I tightened it down I got that bad ole stripped feeling. I guess I went and over tightened it to try and get it tight. :oops: I can't see how bad the threads in the nut are, but the threads on the tang do appear rolled on one side only, near the end. It will tighten up to just kinda snug, and the grip feels fine, but the guard still rotates, even with the washer. (it was always loose fitting, but the compression fit always tightened it up) Don't really want to leave it like this, as the thought that it could just fail worries me. I was thinking of maybe making it permanent after I had prettied it up, now I may not have a choice. This is what I thought: Wedge the guard tight, with some wood wedges. From the tang side. Put plenty of epoxy on the tang, inside the grip, inside the key section of the pommel, on the threaded end of the tang, making sure that any gaps are filled nicely, and then screw it to the just snug point and let the epoxy cure. Then put a rivet head on to simulate a peen, as mentioned in another thread. Would this be a strong enough solution? Over time? As it would be more or less permanent. At this point, the only other thing I can think of, would be to rethread the tang end and then make a new nut for it. not necessarily that easy to do without the tools. And possibly costly to have a machinist do.
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ErnieR
Manufacturer/Vendor
Posts: 91
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Post by ErnieR on Jan 9, 2012 5:01:09 GMT
Would it be possible to post a picture of the tang where you described the threads being rolled. It would seem more likely that the real problem would be the nut (they have failed before) but if I could see the tang as described I could be more sure.
I don't really think your epoxy solution will be satisfactory without a nut properly threaded to the tang, unfortunately I don't believe it would be safe.
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Post by Sir Tre on Jan 9, 2012 6:41:36 GMT
hanwei had a problem with my tang threads on rodell jian like that it appeared that the heat treatment had changed the size of the threaded shaft a bit in the lower quarter. i simply took a lesson from han jian pommel and pined the pommel. look in sword repairs under my thread on rodell jian repairs.
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Post by Johan Elder on Jan 10, 2012 2:00:57 GMT
Here's a pic of the threads on the tang. The seem to be rounded over on one side near the end. It might not be the whole problem though. ITs funny; from what Sir Tre mentioned; that the nuts on both of my H/T swords seemed loose. They could be threaded on to the end but were not exactly tight. Without the pommel, you could wiggle the nut on the tang end while they were threaded on. Is this from heat treat? I may email Hanwei about getting a replacement nut, but I could also use a tap and die to rethread the tang end, and either rethread the nut or drill and tap a new piece of rod to do a mechanical peen. Attachments:
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Post by Sir Tre on Jan 10, 2012 3:30:16 GMT
they will have you go thru the vendor
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ErnieR
Manufacturer/Vendor
Posts: 91
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Post by ErnieR on Jan 10, 2012 3:35:11 GMT
Looking at your picture it really doesn't look like the tang threads are the problem. I would say that a new nut would take care of the problem. As Sir Tre pointed out you can contact the vender where you purchased the sword or you can also get one from one of the fencing supply websites. I build from the bare blades and they don't come with a nut so I get the high grade 6mm nuts that the fencing suppliers sell and have had good performance with them. If you go with one of them make sure to select the interior allen model as they usually have three different types. If you wanted to go to the work of doing a mechanical peen that would work as well but a new nut is a lot easier and quicker fix. On the other hand if you want to do the epoxy thing to help stabilize the hilt then the mechanical peen would certainly make sense as you won't be able to disassemble it again anyway.
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Talon
Member
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,554
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Post by Talon on Jan 10, 2012 6:11:22 GMT
what you could do is try the nut on an m6 bolt,if the nut screws up nice and tight then its the threads on the tang,if it's still loose then you need a new pommel nut
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Post by Johan Elder on Jan 12, 2013 3:16:26 GMT
This is just a little heads up for anyone with a similar problem. I was looking for the 6mm inside hex nuts for fencing foils, and LeonPaul USA had them, but they require a minimum order of 20$, so I ended up going to Absolute Fencing gear. It appears that not all fencing nuts necessarily fit onto the H/T threaded tangs. Right away it was apparent that the nut is too large a diameter to fit into the recess in the pommel. I also tried to thread it onto the tang with the pommel off, and the threaded hole in the nut is just a bit too tight for it to thread on. It feels like its starting, but then blocks and won't continue to thread. I'm not sure if this means that the nuts from Absolute force are a different size from the standard(though they are listed as 6mm) or if the threaded end of the tang on my EMSH is not really 6mm x 1. Could it me imperial? Maybe the thread size of the nut is different from the tangs threads .. *sigh* :? Anyone need a fencing epee pommel nut, or 3? *edited to add: Emails concerning any replacement nuts to Hanwei went unanswered, and KultofAthena said they would be in touch if the got some from Hanwei, with a warning that it wasn't a sure thing, to which I never heard from them, so I went ahead and tried on my own ..
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Post by chrisperoni on Jan 12, 2013 3:29:48 GMT
this post will help with more specifics on the nut measurements viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2825and the threads on the tang don't look that bad to me either.
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Post by willhart on Jan 12, 2013 4:55:09 GMT
I think since Ernie makes his own pommels the nut size being larger isn't a problem for him. There have been multiple threads about this and I even made my own. All roads lead back to ask Hanwei for new hexnuts. I did and they sent me one for free.
But if omeone knows where to get ones that will fit in the pommels of Hanwei, Atrims, and valiant armoury swords. Please let us know.
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Post by Voltan on Jan 12, 2013 18:08:36 GMT
I had the exact same problem with the exact same sword. Ernie made and shipped me a custom pommel for it, and when I put it on the sword, the nut threads failed when I tightened it. I too thought the tang threads failed, as they appeared a little rolled to me.
I sent the whole sword to Ernie, and much to my relief, he said that the tang threads were fine, and that the nut was the problem. Ernie made a new nut for me, and now the sword is nice and tight.
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