SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Dec 19, 2011 5:51:43 GMT
Do you guys know of anyone who makes a bigger heavier duty Jian? I have always really like the profile of Jian styled swords, but quite frankly they are just too small/light for my tastes. The only one I have handled in person is the Hanwei Cutting Jian, which is waaay to 'floaty' for my tastes. The shorter blade length also isn't especially endearing to me. I have a definite preference for longer bladed swords.
I hope this post hasn't made you Chinese Martial Arts guys facepalm too hard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 6:02:17 GMT
The Cold Steel Gim Sword is nice and Jianish (Gim=Jian?); I've heard that it's a beast of a cutter and heavier than a Jian should be, but with decent handling.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Dec 19, 2011 6:06:43 GMT
From what I understand, and this is completely uneducated and just info gleaned from skimming posts, the length and 'floatyness' are key and integral to the identity of the true jian type swords. I don't know the mechanics or use of one, so I can't say why, but thats the impression I gather.
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Post by Opferous on Dec 19, 2011 6:37:56 GMT
You might have to go custom. There really isn't any viable chang jian or shuangshou jian currently on the production market that I know of. Also, considering that POB is usually discussed at being 4-6 inches out from the guard, you might be finding a proper jian "floaty" mainly due to low overall weight from the distal taper of the blade and the minimal weight from guard/pommel and not its balance. You could try and order a cut and thrust bare blade from somewhere and mount it on jian fittings yourself.
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Post by Gundoggy on Dec 19, 2011 14:24:40 GMT
Historically single handed jian reached a maximum of around 32" blades...measured from shoulder of the blade...or from junction when the handle meets the rear of the guard (NOT from front of the guard). Average weight was around 2lbs although some were heavier...around 3 lbs. Any heavier than that and you were looking at training pieces not designed to fight with. Realistically most had a POB between 5-7" from form the point where handle meets rear of the guard.
Try a day long seminar with a heavy jian and you may find the 'light/floaty' one is preferable after a few hours.
2 handed jian did exist but were comparatively rare.
I do not view the Hanwei cutting jian is a good representation of a 'historical' jian. Jin Shi is the only company I am aware of that has done detailed analysis of antique blades in order to determine historical clamshell geometry and overall handling. Although, the Hanwei jian was also supposed to have done this, in actual execution it failed.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Dec 19, 2011 15:43:49 GMT
Of that I have no doubt. :lol: But atm I am only cutting bottles in my backyard.
Many examples I have seen have quite a long handle, is this because they are hand and a half or simply for balance reasons? Or are they just over represented in the market because people without knowledge of Chinese swords like me like them that way?
Do you know anything more about their swords? Paul's review of their Han Dynasty Jian makes it look amazing, but it is a little light on numbers. I love the look of it but I also really liked the aesthetics of the Hanwei Jian. I am somewhat reticent to shell out for something I may end up disliking. I haven't even seen any stats on the sword.
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Post by steelhound on Dec 19, 2011 16:19:51 GMT
Gus Trim has also studied numerous antique Jians and applies that knowledge to his Tac Jians. From what I understand, there may be a Tac Jian in the new style with permanent assembly coming out soon, but it will be lighter than you are probably looking for.
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Post by Sir Tre on Dec 19, 2011 16:25:48 GMT
a taiji jian is balanced in a way that even a heavier blade feels lighter. try to avoid wushu blades as they are only meant for forms practice and are way too flimsy. the way a taiji jian fa form works is that the swordsman is using skill rather than strength. the "odd" circular movements are easier performed with a well balanced sword that feels lighter due to a 3-5 inch pob as opposed to a 4-6 inch pob. the cuts are performed more thru the application of chi thru the blade rather than speed and strength. granted the video in the link below is not my best, you can see that i cut 3 bottles with less speed and strength. and tho you prefer a beefier sword this jian is a jin-shi production model that has a 27 inch blade and feels wonderfully light. also is rather light for weight as well. www.facebook.com/video/video.ph ... 0821134869 |
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Post by Opferous on Dec 19, 2011 21:08:58 GMT
If you want something that can cleave more, you could try the Huanuo Royal Peony: sevenstarstrading.com/site/huanuo/peonysword/. Admittedly, it has a diamond cross section instead of the historically preferred clamshell, but if you're just backyard cutting and don't care much for historical authenticity, it's not a big deal. If I recall, a review on GRTC for the monosteel version had the balance of it out at 6" or so and should make it significantly less floaty, if a little axe-like for the length of blade. |
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Dec 19, 2011 21:40:22 GMT
I'd pretty much listen to Sir Tre on this, he knows his stuff on jian and the Chinese arts.
I've done a bit of research, and unless you just want something with surface aesthetics of a jian, the issues you mention will likely remain, but I am told only enhance their performance- backyard cutting or no, you won't get as much enjoyment out of a so-so made sword used incorrectly.
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Post by Sir Tre on Dec 19, 2011 22:07:16 GMT
garrette chan and also a couple others here are more knowledgeable than i on good jian than i.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Dec 19, 2011 22:14:27 GMT
If you want a bigger sword, I might suggest looking into having a Hanwei/Tinker bastard sword, the non-fullered version, modified for what you like. The weight and distribution are going to be pretty different than what might be ideal for a jian though, so it would be a no-no for traditional tai-chi training. It'll cut and perform just fine, though...
Tre-- I didn't think Garrett Chan was a member here?
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Dec 19, 2011 22:58:28 GMT
Nail on the head.  Training in any sort of CMA is something that would happen in the far far far future, and most likely never. I'm looking for something that looks like a jian but handles more like a katana/euro. |
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Post by Sir Tre on Dec 19, 2011 23:29:49 GMT
elheru, garrett was on old forum and i think he is here but not active, might be wrong tho. elheru has point about bastard sword modified... look @ 4th from bottom in my pic here. it is a H?T bastard sword with jian furniture. www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 703&type=3 |
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SeanF
Member
Posts: 1,293
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Post by SeanF on Dec 20, 2011 0:12:01 GMT
Do you have a non facebook link for that?
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Post by Sir Tre on Dec 20, 2011 3:36:47 GMT
check sbg in member collection for heatherbrook court collection
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Post by Taiwandeutscher on Dec 20, 2011 7:13:44 GMT
Doesn't Huanuo also produce a 2-hander Chinese jian? Sevenstar should have it, would be longer and heavier!
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Post by Opferous on Dec 20, 2011 10:48:18 GMT
At one time, they offered a Flying Dragon shuangshou jian. I believe they discontinued it back in 2009 or 2010. SeanF could probably e-mail or call up Sevenstar to see if they have any left though.
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Training in any sort of CMA is something that would happen in the far far far future, and most likely never. I'm looking for something that looks like a jian but handles more like a katana/euro.
