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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 15:38:32 GMT
Hello all. Guess I'm as giddy as a "schoolgurl" about this one today! (and seeking some helpful advice (Nooby "PLZ.PLZ. help" added)) Yesterday I was able to locate (dig up) my paper-template I used on an awesome push-dagger! I misplaced the finished knife, And have studied much more on fine cutlery making since then anyway. I am planning to use either 5160(?) OR one of the higher 10xx series like 1085 or even 1095 since the blade is short. 5160 is my favorite steel (safer from breaking). But it would be awesome if I could achieve a nice Hamon using the 10xx steel. (Not possible with 5160). However the blade is short AND double edged so IDK whether "Hamon" is possible (familiar with the technique just haven't tryed yet, familiar with Heat-treating too). Also I need I think 5 1/2 " Inch x about 3 3/4" inch piece for these. Should be cheaper since the seller could send me cut bits (so small size they'd be like scraps( )). I do want them about 1/4" thick so the part between blade and handle can be narrow, yet strong (Fits between fingers). But not sure where is best ? , Only have a few sources in mind.(?) Also for the handle (two "scales") I have plenty of Oak, and could make it decently work, but I'd prefer something more exotic or striped atleast like one of the striped curly Maple(?) Etc.(?) likewise the scales are small. Well got to get back to some work now. Thanks very much in advance for any advice on what I've mentioned. I'll hopefully be able to update with pics sometime, and atleast the first one will be sold for charity. I have a short sword, knife (based off it), future Long-Sword (by changing the angles) AND this Push-dagger which I'd be happy to spend ALL my cutlery building on . This will be the first "Production" type piece! D*mn my posts always get long... EDIT: Forgot to ask: Also for the sheath, would it be too "Cheesy" if I used old scrap leather from jackets, purses,etc. ? I've had good luck in the past with boot tongues, but IDK whether it's acceptable for "production stuff" ... AND: for a "Maker's Mark" stamp I wonder if one of THESE could be made do? Would the logo be too common, and I suppose I'd need a few since they're cheap and will probably get dull(?) Thanks!
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Post by Unit731 on Oct 19, 2011 17:24:17 GMT
For something as small as a push dagger, I wouldn't be too worried about blade strength (unless your stabbing diamonds). A hamon should be possible on a double edged push dagger (I have seen a few small, double edged blades with a hamon). But what do I know, I am no smith. And as for using scrap leather for a sheath: It might be kinda cheesy depending on the quality of the leather. I was thinking something similar for an old project, but the leather I have is pretty bad.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Oct 19, 2011 17:32:01 GMT
i cant see any reason why a hamon isnt doeable as a long time fan of the push dagger this build is really interesting me,im looking forward to seeing the piece as it progresses,keep us posted derek
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Oct 19, 2011 17:43:54 GMT
This is such a small knife - I think it's better off using some sort of stainless. It might be better to ask on bladeforums or here in the maker's thread If you don't have texas knifemaker's supply down: www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=87_924I have purchased kydex from there - very great place. And that brings me to the next point: Kydex works and looks good for the push knives. I think it's much safer too ~ The kydex is much thinner and you do not have to worry about cutting the stitching much less the leather; Personally, I always have to be more careful with sheathing into leather. I think it is especially risky w/ a double edged, but I've seen good leather sheaths on pushies before.
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Post by Unit731 on Oct 19, 2011 22:11:33 GMT
I was thinking that too, as stainless is a lot more rigid, which I would think would be better for a stabbing weapon of that size. Not to mention that maintenance would be pretty simple.
Not sure if you can make a hamon on stainless though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 23:12:16 GMT
Thanks for the replies so far! I have no desire to work with Stainless. Although 440C would be suitable, Just something about it's "soul" ...Hard to explain. Besides it's hard to find the width (3-3/4") I need. Well Thanks for the suggestion/ reminder: I Like THIS Cocobolo Best so far, I measured and it will be perfect!!! Deciding between that and the Winewood ...At the same price, the cocobolo seems to have deeper color stripes.(?) Also I'll probably use the corby Fastener(s) (or similar) since grip will be removeable. EDIT: Dang, got bumped offline where I am... Looks like O1 steel might be my best bet now, but unfamiliar with it. $66.43 for 1.5 feet (That means only three of these)...(ANother EDIT: 1/4" thick x 4" width). Dang the 5160 there , I could get 6 feet for about $75 (prices have gone up :x Wonder IF O1 will create a "Hamon" as well??? Looks like total cost for me (excluding: tooling and leather or Kydex, and shipping, would be about $34 so far) :x I will try to e-mail Admiral Steel regarding 1080 or 1095 pieces first too. Thanks again. Been exited about this project ALL day atleast, and will follow up. (Noticed the dagger/knife forum here, but atleast I can send you fellas Karma soon when I have time anyway).
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Oct 20, 2011 3:38:13 GMT
I think you can definitely get the hamon up on a small push dagger.
I have a KC Celtic which is DH 5160. I did etch to bring out the hamon - it's definitely cool looking, but toned down/subtle. Same with the KC katanas - you can't really get the hamon as vibrant as the other carbon steels
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Oct 20, 2011 5:01:13 GMT
derek o1 is a fantastic knife steel,its all i use for my knives,its not the best for producing a hamon though,kudos to you for avoiding the stainless route
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 16:08:25 GMT
Thanks! Dang I feel stupid, (please no "You should") :oops: : My (thick paper) template was folded where I changed it in a few spots... Also I have a habit when I measure to start at the one and subtract one. Not sure which the heck , but this is 3" Inch width total, Not 3-3/4" So now I dropped onlineto check on 3" steel stock on McMaster-Carr and Admiral ,Etc. since this changes everything... Noticed I was looking at "oversize tight tolerance" too (not needed) and the prices were much lower than last night. :oops: (Double stupid from being "Giddy" about this project is all)... Admiral Steel has : HR 1095 (Hope "HR" isn't "heat resistant,no time to check now):1/4"x3"x 6FEET for $53.98 Mcmaster-Carr has: 1/4"x3"x1.5' feet O1 steel for 39.66 and 5160 1/4"x3"x 6FEET for $46.08 Things are looking better now! I was remembering the original I made about 10+ years ago and this one time I was working with my best buddy doing moving jobs for a guy. He slipped on wet grass that summer and broke his leg on the dresser he was carying... When we went to get his check the guy said he'd have to sign a waiver FIRST (or no paycheck)... I got P*ssed at that point, drew my (this) push dagger and told the guy to pay up NOW along with my check up to then... It was crazy because the guy's wife saw and let out a shreik ...I was all worried realizing it could be termed "armed robbery" We got paid though, and left (luckily) ...This is a pretty vicious looking/handy blade is all. :twisted:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2011 17:40:38 GMT
WooHoo! My B-Day is coming (Extremely soon ) and a relative wants to buy me the steel as a gift!!! IF I go with 1095 I could probably get twelve from a six foot piece, but I think I'd have to cut with my hacksaw for less blade "take". (otherwise 11 and a scrap piece). Also I just got a new PC connection, so I'll be able to post pics soon! I've come up with other handle shapes for this particular design (Since it was made to fit between the middle and ring finger mostly, might be better between index and middle finger( ))...crazy the many variations for a single design , even a short little blade ... This is so much fun, I'd like to offer these as a kit for beginners as well, with perhaps an instructional vid step-by-step, or atleast a youtube vid link. (It would be nice to order steel in even smaller lot, etc.) Still excited about this. I found an expensive leather chair while searching for scrap this morning , and I'm about to return to get (a whole lot) quality leather off it! Thinking of maybe doing Cuir Boille sheaths , using a blade inserted in the sheath during the process. Seems like the wax will benefit the blade, make the leather around 4X stronger, and mold well to the blade. Stitching will probably be Hungarian Hemp string (?). I have a maker's mark stamp (2 combined) decided , but studied salt etching marks last night as well. Talon : Srry for being "me me me" all the time, forgot to ask IF you had a link or pics etc. to your O-1 Knives??? Thanks. Check here for updates (soon)
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Oct 24, 2011 17:51:07 GMT
nah i like you're enthusiasm i post my builds in the other weapons thread,im a rank amateur knife maker though,i do it for fun and it keeps me from buying a lot of useless crap on ebay (well mostly) :roll: push daggers are a big no no in blighty,still i might make one just for the hell of it then destroy it
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Post by freq on Oct 24, 2011 20:13:34 GMT
yeah sure "destroy" it :lol:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 15:37:39 GMT
Probably underestimating yourself Talon (as I do for myself). @ Freq: That's what I was thinking too! Cool to get a reply from yourself BTW. Well it could still be a collector piece, or conversation piece (kept w/ the house collection...until zombie day, etc.) ...For me, I'm a Dad now, so I don't take stupid risks , etc. But the time I MOST want to have some weapon in reach is when I have my daughters and wife with me...I just fear/ dread that "powerless" moment...and prepare. ("Be prepared to fight for what you love, One day you will HAVE too"- A wise man) Without hesitation or thought I'd put myself in danger for them ("Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" ,OR worse to watch them "carried by 6" ever). Well I use my real name because I knew sooner or later I will have to. In Business or sword/knife art, reputation is everything too, so it's good to have a "mentorship" on this . I'm grateful for Marc Kaden Ridgeway's post HERE which caused me to remember this design. I've found I ALWAYS get MORE back when trying to work for others...it's crazy sometimes... To update for now: I just finally cut enough leather (off a scrapped chair someone dumped a week ago, in a rich area): www.americanleather.com/Standard-Recliners.aspx (same color as the "savoy" at bottom) to make probably 50 or 100 sheaths!!! Funny the tag inside read "America Leather, Made in USA, WW.Americaleather.com" ... I'm kicking myself for not "skinning" the entire couch (that was gone)...this stuff is just like leather from "Tandy" or such!!! Just happy to have what I got for free, felt like I was skinning a cow or something with a utility knife...(LOL). Well somebody please reply so I won't have to Dble. post once I get another update. Oh, Wondering how well this leather will take brown or black dye since it's already tan??? Thanks!
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Oct 27, 2011 18:46:50 GMT
of course i will i once made a percussion .38 single shot muzzle loader then after a few fun shots on the moors i took it home and cut it up,i'll do the same with the push dagger (or hide it) :lol:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 16:29:15 GMT
**********UPDATE!************* I ordered 6 feet of 1095 from Admiral last night (Thanks for the [Mild] mentoring type replies Talon! ) -Worked, then Raced to bank before 5PM, called Admiral Steel, was surprised they were open/ very helpful! I was tired by then(daughter's up since 3AM yesterday, full day picking up scrap metal, beer, etc.) -...Kicking myself this morning because the guy from there opened dialog asking me if I ,"was a knife-maker"... Perhaps I could have bargained with him, and explained what I needed( ) (but I was tired so ordered full length). -Oh well, full length is good because I'd like to design a long version of my short sword (which I'll need to forge 4" 5160 stock to 4.5" (1/4" each side at widest point))...Long version should be perhaps 3" at widest (incase I don't use it all for these)... -Picked up a nice used toaster over for tempering...(atleast two oven thermometers for moniter temp. too) -picked up a round steel piece, a used hair-dryer (blower), fittings, and pipe to build my small, in-ground BBQ charcoal forge -Noticed snaps, and rivets for leather in a local craft store where I got my Hungarian hemp string for stitching in past to mend my Motorcycle saddle bags. -I also picked up a (used/free woo-hoo) box with nice engravings that the first one can ship inside, and some silky satin red fabric to line it with! (Should be nice, but it's one-of a kind) Woo-HOO!!! Now I just need: my wood scales, a "step drill-bit" , and my "maker's mark" stamps (two combined I've chosen). I'd like to stamp the first "001" that will be donated AND be my FIRST EVER "for sale" type produced piece!!! (Dang so I need # stamps too :x ) [EDIT: Dang I also need refractory cement for Hamon, and etchant too :x ] It's coming together though, can't wait to get working!!! When I turned 18 I recall frantically disassembling "zip-guns" , muzzle-loaders, and a .22 starter pistol I'd converted...dumping parts in various locations (creek-beds sewers etc.) Then much later I learned Muzzle-loaders are not considered firearms by the ATF, AND read another law on-line somewhere that it's NOT illegal to build a personal use cased-shell firearm In USA as long as it's not full-auto OR a shotgun with under 18" inch barrel, but these cannot be sold or transfered to another person (Unless that person claims THEy built it ) :lol: (Please reply to something stated, so I don't have to Double post my next update).
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