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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 2:13:21 GMT
ive been cutting and training with basic technique for a little over 2 months now. with my first sword i developed a slight pain in my forearm almost like i was stressing the bone its hard to describe...i thought nothing of it and it slowly went away but now that i baught the SGC, which is a heavier sword, the pain has returned and its a little more intense this time. so is this normal or is it anything i should be concerned about?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 8:12:31 GMT
If you can identify the pain as being other than DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness - which goes away after a few days) then it may be something worth checking out.
Could provide some more info on the precise nature of your pain such as what action causes onset (if you can identify something more specific than using a sword such as your technique or if it's just gripping something strongly or if it's on the down stroke or recovery), duration, location (a picture marking the spot would be very helpful) a rating in severity out of 10 and how that changes?
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Post by tajima on Mar 12, 2008 8:16:11 GMT
Yeah, mate, it could just be that you don't warm up - but I thoroughly back Vypada's advisements.
Thanks, -Tajima
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 9:02:18 GMT
Two months isn't that long, depending on your athletic stature. Your muscles will enevitably hurt as swordsmanship is NOT a natural function of the human body. To train with a heavier blade is a good thing from a swordsmans point of view, but it is not too endearing from a phsyiotherapists point of view. When I took up Jodo I had this thing where my fingertips would go all pins-and-needles in mid-kata. In the end it was just an incorrect gripping issue that was ironed out, since then it has never happened again. If it bothers you just try a lighter blade until you build a little arm strength, but enevitably your arms will strain doing any sword art. Try to put your focus on your technique and dispell the pain, if possible. This is non-existent now but just imagine in days of old on a battlefield, you would ache all over but if you dropped that blade even once, you're dead. You would just keep slaying and slaying until you were struck down or there were no more left to slay, this could take sometime or it could all be over in a second. The only difference being, your endurance .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 16:28:35 GMT
If it's your first time training with swords, than yes. I remember my back and arms hurting as I don't know what, in the 1-4 months of training and sparring with bokken.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2008 21:06:37 GMT
Ok I try to describe it a little bit more in detail....it’s about 5 inches from my wrist on the outside of my forearm. It doesn’t really feel like a muscle pain as I said it feels like theres pressure being put on that outside bone in my forearm. It only hurts when I’m applying pressure to that area but the pain is only a 2 or 3 out of 10. It doesn’t exactly hinder my ability but it is an annoyance. And yes I get the idea chopchop but I don’t think I’ll be in any battles anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 8:19:32 GMT
I have a few questions because it gives me the impression that is is a muscular thing and is an unusual spot for something else to be going on there.
By applying pressure, what do you mean? Training with the sword or pushing down on the spot directly with something? Do you only have pain while doing something like this?
5 inches... would that make it about midway down your forearm?
Have you ever had or have at the moment neck or upper back pain? Any pain while keeping your elbow straight and moving (flexing and extending) your wrist to as far as it can go? Try doing it with your forearm and then moving it using your other hand, keeping the forearm completely relaxed, compare palm up to palm down positions.
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Post by salvatore on Mar 13, 2008 9:18:22 GMT
Actualy, swinging a katana stimulates muscles that aren't commonly used, rather, muscles that aren't stimulated by every day means.
For instance, Uma Thurman, star in "Kill Bill" says she gained muscle mass after learning how to use a katana, because it stimulates un-used muscles.
So you will be sore, I got to the point where I could not lift my bokken, had to wait 3 days, pain went away and I was back at it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 10:30:16 GMT
It only hurts when I’m applying pressure to that area well don't touch it then p.s. I have kids mate. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 10:35:41 GMT
Actualy, swinging a katana stimulates muscles that aren't commonly used, rather, muscles that aren't stimulated by every day means. Well, that depends on what you do every day... if you don't do something like feed yourself or write every day then it might! All of the muscles in your hand and most in the forearm (apart from brachioradialis which flexes the elbow under load) are going to be used when you open and close your hand or touch your fingertips together and rotate your wrist. The main difference is going to be the load the muscles are subject to... which will vary the number of motor units recruited... in the hand these have a low threshold for maximal recruitment (about 60% 1 repetition maximum load vs 85% for most other muscles such as in the forearm, arm and shoulder girdle), however, so their rate of firing may be increased with effort rather than the numbers recruited. Certainly, it stimulates the muscles we have in a slightly different way (such as pattern of recruitment and the length that they are contracting) unless the tools one uses are of similar dimensions and are used in a similar way - which can cause DOMS.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 14:37:15 GMT
no it dosent hurt at all when im relaxed but after cutting or training it hurts when i apply pressure to it or when i lift something that stresses the bone or at least thats what it feels like...its REALLY hard to describe. its most likley improper technique.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2008 16:54:36 GMT
It may be tendinitis. If it doesn't clear up in one day, it likely isn't DOMS. Get it checked out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 9:03:14 GMT
Actualy, swinging a katana stimulates muscles that aren't commonly used, rather, muscles that aren't stimulated by every day means. Well, that depends on what you do every day... if you don't do something like feed yourself or write every day then it might! All of the muscles in your hand and most in the forearm (apart from brachioradialis which flexes the elbow under load) are going to be used when you open and close your hand or touch your fingertips together and rotate your wrist. The main difference is going to be the load the muscles are subject to... which will vary the number of motor units recruited... in the hand these have a low threshold for maximal recruitment (about 60% 1 repetition maximum load vs 85% for most other muscles such as in the forearm, arm and shoulder girdle), however, so their rate of firing may be increased with effort rather than the numbers recruited. Certainly, it stimulates the muscles we have in a slightly different way (such as pattern of recruitment and the length that they are contracting) unless the tools one uses are of similar dimensions and are used in a similar way - which can cause DOMS. You aren't a physio by any chance vyapada ? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 9:22:24 GMT
In training, mate!
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Post by salvatore on Mar 14, 2008 11:10:21 GMT
I don't know, some people go out and say tendinitis when pain gets this bad. It is possible, but what are the odds? I had the same things you did, pressure makes it hurts, general agitation I'd imagine, etc. It took me 3 days of total rest, I barely used my arms at all(Swung my bokken exactly 752 times, that will do it. Counted because of a bet that was made, ).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 11:35:34 GMT
I don't know, some people go out and say tendinitis when pain gets this bad. It is possible, but what are the odds? I had the same things you did, pressure makes it hurts, general agitation I'd imagine, etc. This definitely does fit, but without the extra info I've asked him about it's hard to get a better picture. 3 days rest and you were over it? Sounds more like doms, unless you had a pain for a longer time and only then did complete rest help. Most of the time tendinopathy takes a lot more than just rest to resolve it as it is a structural change to the tendon.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Mar 14, 2008 11:48:09 GMT
sounds like a small tare those hurt like crazy for a couple of days and tipicly clear up on there own I've had a few usualy in the same spot between the bones down about two inchs from the elbow on the outside of the forearm
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Post by salvatore on Mar 14, 2008 12:12:22 GMT
So what did I get? It did hurt like crazy, could not life my bokken, could not lift the controller to my TV, not even a pencil. Yet I still tried to sneak a bit of practice in, I cannot stand not practicing, annoys me. A friend of mine online scolded me, she was trying to say I was crazy for still practing,lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 13:15:19 GMT
Hey salvatore, I'll need some more details to even make an educated guess!
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Post by salvatore on Mar 14, 2008 13:34:04 GMT
Well, I had always thought it was me just generally me over extending the muscle. Swordboy messaged me regarding this, he seems to have thought the same thing.
It was me being reckless, it's okay. That is what you get when you have to practice and have to see through on a bet,lol.
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