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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 2:03:37 GMT
Is Bushido 1 type of Japanese art form? What art form is the best to you, in you own prospective? Can you also list the other art forms for sword arts?
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Post by tajima on Oct 17, 2007 8:51:17 GMT
Ahhh....Hmm. Bushido is "Way of the Warrior", for Samurai. It is basically the honour code followed by those samurai loyal to the way.
I know of many but Iaido is popular, but I practise Kobudo which involves Nunchaku, Tonfa, Sai, Rokushakubo, Eku, Katana and Shinai etc. etc.
Bushido is (to my knowledge) not practised today, except by the Samurai fanatic clans (Which I do not think there are any left of). Cheers, -Taj
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 12:13:27 GMT
Ahhh....Hmm. Bushido is "Way of the Warrior", for Samurai. It is basically the honour code followed by those samurai loyal to the way. I know of many but Iaido is popular, but I practise Kobudo which involves Nunchaku, Tonfa, Sai, Rokushakubo, Eku, Katana and Shinai etc. etc. Bushido is (to my knowledge) not practised today, except by the Samurai fanatic clans (Which I do not think there are any left of). Cheers, -Taj there was some group in the 60s I think that tried to bring busido back to life but the leader ended up commiting sepuku, I will have to look up the specifics
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Post by swordreaper on Oct 17, 2007 12:17:36 GMT
Bushido (i think) requires the samurai to reach a certain height in their mind called "mushin"... This allows them to react to any danger aimed at them moving their body instinctively without thought... Though i have read many books about it, they don't seem to tell you how to do it (if there is someone who knows how, please share!!)... Ninja suprisingly know the same thing... I, on the other hand only do TKD (tae kwon do)... He sometimes teaches me nunchaku but rarely teaches me to use the bokken/ shinnai... He thinks that these weapons originated from Korea... In my opinion, i think that he just hates the japanese
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Post by grahamts on Oct 17, 2007 18:57:50 GMT
As far as I am aware, mushin can be considered to be muscle memory rather than concious thought. It is the basis of all martial arts at the higher levels. One reacts to an attack instinctively and moves in an appropriate manner without any thought, if you have to think about an initial reaction it is probably too late! The thought process comes into play once the initial threat is supressed or avoided, even then responses tend to be automatic rather than planned. This is the reason that I don't teach killing moves as a set finish to a technique. If one of my students is attacked and automatically uses a technique that is designed to kill, then the moral fault is mine, not the students, as I taught him/her to do that move without thought. The moves are taught, but as a seperate entity which can be used if the situation demands it and the student has to conciously decide to use it. Many schools teach these finishes as part of their regular curriculum, which causes me some concern for their students, luckily such moves are not generally as easy to use successfully as is portrayed in movies ;D Getting back to Mushin we are constantly telling our more senior students,"Don't think - Do"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 22:36:19 GMT
grahamts so ur a teacher.What specifily do u teach?Is there a way to learn mushin?What is the overall arts that mushin is in?Cause it seems so intresting that these people brought up that I never knew there was this type of art.
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Post by grahamts on Oct 17, 2007 23:24:35 GMT
Hi Ninjastar, I teach JuJutsu, but the point was that it is nothing mystical, just constant, hard practice. The body learns to react to specific stymuli in a certain way, vary the sytmuli and the reaction changes, change the pattern and the response varies, practice enough different techniques with diferent attacks for long enough and your body reacts instinctively. The nearest analogy I can think of is to that of a sprinter, if they reacted to the sound of the gun conciously they would probably loose around 1 tenth of a second on their start, they learn to react instinctively through constant practice. Their body starts moving as soon as the sound of the shot reaches their brain, before they even conciously register the sound! Mushin (if that is the word ) is not a specific art or style, it is common to all arts if the practitioner is good enough. You don't get taught it, the potential is there in virtually everyone if they practice enough. I'm not even sure that Mushin is the correct word But from SwordReapers post, he is describing the above and as I can't remember the Japanese word I assume that Mushin is it ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 1:05:08 GMT
So is that why I act b4 somethings happens because for some reason I re act very quick,but I don't know its it cuase of my trainning in TKD or wat not.Does mushin effect all martrial art?(Like TKD)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 1:31:07 GMT
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Post by rammstein on Oct 18, 2007 1:52:10 GMT
With all due respect Sword Reaper, yours isn't much better...(responding to a post that was deleted above. Not sure if this was to make my post look insulting or not....)
Honestly, as long as the intent is good, I don't have much of a problem with bad grammar/typing.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 18, 2007 2:05:32 GMT
I read 1337 5P34k fluently, nobody's hurting my feelings with poor spelling, grammar, or typing skills. The thing that's getting to me about this thread is that what you're speaking of (bushido, mushin) are both CONCEPTS, thoughts, beliefs, ideas, states of mind; not styles or individual techniques. There is no way to "study" or "learn" them in the direct sense, rather they come with dedication toward the art you practice (be it sword, unarmed, what have you). You train hard in your respective martial art, setting your mind to the extent that you understand the purpose of each individual movement, but achieve a level where these movements simply happen, whether you like it or not. Once, during practice several years ago, we were simulating "real world" encounters. It was my turn to be on defensive, and I stood with my back to the rest of the class while somebody was randomly selected to choose from a variety of weapons to attack me as they please. I got the cue to turn around and at the same time they came at me with a (rubber) knife. The distance may have been five to seven feet. Next thing I knew I had them on the ground, and was basically straddling their chest, holding the same (rubber) knife to their throat. I have no idea to this day how we got there. I believe this is the main concept of Mushin. On Bushido, it's more of a moral guideline, a set of principles by which a noble, honorable person should live their life. Among its teachings is the idea that one should not fear death, as death (especially for one's master/lord while in battle) is a great and honorable, not to mention inevitable, thing. We're all going to die, just face it and move on. Death will be what decides when we die, so live ready to die at any time. If you're fighting, fearing death, you'll be in a very poor mental state, wherein you're simply too aware (mushin fits in here) for your own good, and will miss something, and you will likely die, in the bad way. However, going into a fight knowing that you're going to be killed, but fighting anyway, you somehow (according to the ideal) stand a better chance at winning. Perhaps the idea is that when one does not fear injury or death, one finds more options open to them. A man who fears death will run away from his opponent, to be chased down and killed. A man who does not fear death will run INTO his opponent, and 1) take him down and achieve victory 2) mutual kill 3) die with honor intact. This is just my own understanding, presented for the sake of discussion. Feel free to pick me apart. Oh, and in relation to the arts themselves, I assume that you mean martial arts, rather than, say, the Tea Ceremony, calligraphy, poetry, et cetera. In which case, while I am no expert, by far, there are too many distinct arts, forms, styles, schools, what have you for me to even try to discuss. Each presents their own strengths, and (dare I say it?) weaknesses, no one is superior (or inferior) to any other, per se. This is my own perspective, others may (and likely will) differ. My own experience is minimal at best, to begin with. I've only studied "kenpo karate" for a little over a year, and that was over seven years ago. Maybe longer. I have forgotten the history of the art, and of my school, but it's in a book I have somewhere, as well as all the forms, katas, and a few techniques we practiced. Fun little manual, I'll have to find it, very detailed. I have no training in sword arts, so somebody else will have to fill in there, but even at that point, "sword arts" is a rather broad term. Hopefully somebody here can offer you some insight to their own studies, maybe even find you a local place to learn and train. There's nothing around here but karate and tae kwon do, though; neither of which catch my fancy at present. Maybe chopchop can clue you in, I think he even started a few threads. Have you read them?
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Post by grahamts on Oct 18, 2007 6:36:46 GMT
Hey Random that's exactly what I was trying to explain although the thought of Mushin in the tea ceromony is intruiging ;D It also applies to any other physical activity where reaction time is important, as the old saying goes "Practice Makes Perfect" Ramm, I think you've edited the sense out of your reply
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 7:46:04 GMT
Mushin is about knowing distance and learning to recognize where an opponent is and how they are going to move without looking at them. I know some very skilled ninjas that can actually "throw" their presence so they feel like they are attacking from a different direction than they actually are. It isn't about mysticism it is about training and heightening your sensory perception, hearing, smell, sound. I have gotten to a point where i can fight someone without my glasses on (doesn't sound that impressive until you realise that i can't see without my glasses). It is all about learning how to heighten your senses really.
As to not teaching killing moves as a finish, i guess i can understand that but when i am teaching people we don't move fast when practicing. Even practicing slowly the speed comes naturally, sometimes i find the slower i move in practice the faster i can move when in a situation. I guess we all have different ways of teaching and practicing and that is what makes martial arts so interesting. Practicing slowly means that you are practicing precision, you don't need to punch and kick flat out to learn how to do it, better to fight slowly in practice.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 10:31:41 GMT
Bushido, or budo is a state of being. It is hard to sum this into words as it consists of being many facets all at once. True budo has nothing to do with swords it is something that is learnt from watching, waiting, listening, feeling, timing and trust. This is why I am so reluctant to explain many JSA kata. The whole point of doing it and gaining from such experience is being taught it by a dedicated teacher, who you regard as having attained budo. Not just the instructor who has the highest title, but one who you feel displays true form from a lifetime of commitment.
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Post by swordreaper on Oct 18, 2007 11:37:23 GMT
Ramm, i take that as something bad or maybe an insult... But at least i have a reason why my english or whatever isn't better... I live in a multi-cultural country and english isn't my primary language though i use it just as much... My primary language is Chinese... The other language include malay, hokkian, hakka, a bit of japanese and korean... Forgive my rudeness but i don't respond to insults/critism well
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2007 8:08:36 GMT
Ok Rammstein and SwordReaper,
I think you need to cease this "whatever" that is between you. We have to understand that this is a multi cultural forum and not everybody speaks english as a first language.
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Post by rammstein on Oct 29, 2007 23:41:42 GMT
Not sure what you're talking about I think you completely misread what I'm saying. You insulted ninjastar's grammar - what makes you think his native languag is english? You can insult his grammar, and when I point out that you aren't in the place to judge, you get offended? No one is in the place to judge spelling and grammar on an international board, myself included. I understand that not everyone speaks english fluently. IOW I agree with you completely. Somehow I just got the image of a man with a heavy italian accent insulting a man with a heavy polish accent for not being able to speak english correctly.... Many apologies if I offend. I'm just pointing out that if I don't have the right to point out that your grammar is bad, then neither do you to anyone else. The sword swings both ways, you know.
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