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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2007 1:37:05 GMT
This was posted and is posted in the general forum. I was directed here to ask the question. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a question about Tsuba.
Besides being a guard ,so your hand doesn`t slip onto the blade and being decorative,what other purpose does it serve.I guess my question is , does the weight of the Tsuba aid in helping make a cut by adding some weight to the blade? The more or less solid Tsuba on the Katana seem to to make it heavier than a cut out Tsuba.
Hope I said this so you all can understand my question. Thanks in advance
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2007 8:06:45 GMT
This was posted and is posted in the general forum. I was directed here to ask the question. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a question about Tsuba. Besides being a guard ,so your hand doesn`t slip onto the blade and being decorative,what other purpose does it serve.I guess my question is , does the weight of the Tsuba aid in helping make a cut by adding some weight to the blade? The more or less solid Tsuba on the Katana seem to to make it heavier than a cut out Tsuba. Hope I said this so you all can understand my question. Thanks in advance certified, this is where the true beauty of the 'koshirae' or furniture of a Japanese sword lies. Every part of the koshirae has a complete being and function of it's own, but also looks extremely decorative to the untrained eye. Yes, the weight of the tsuba would contribute to the weight balance of the sword as a whole. In Japan, the blade is forged and then passed along to all the other smiths that would be responsible each for contributing their skill to their particular part of the koshirae. The original forger would have been highly aware of 'his' finished product and would always compensate for this in his 'sori' or where the point of balance would roughly be located. Personally, The main use I have for a tsuba is as a sort of catch, so as my katana does not fall out unintentionally i.e. when bowing. I have always been taught to keep my thumb over the tsuba when the sword is not drawn, as much as for formality as for safety. Do not place your thumb directly over the edge, as if a loonatic tries forceably to tear your katana out whilst it is in your 'obi' or belt, the pressure you are putting on the tsuba with your thumb will be transferred to the cutting edge, this will hurt you greatly. Instead place your thumb slightly to the right(towards your belt) so if it comes out unintentionally, your thumb will fall back on the saya, as it should. Originally most tsuba were iron. They have been over Japan's history made with many other metals but iron was highly favoured due to resources-at-hand. Iron is a heavy metal but if cleverly crafted as is, serves the function of guard and can be decoratively crafted in design AND serves as a slight counterweight to the blade. Pure genius ! really !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 1:52:10 GMT
how much is the tsuba used to parry/block/defend in Japanese sword arts? I had heard from some that it served more to prevent the hand straying onto the blade, could you please enlighten me as to this
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 3:19:55 GMT
In ninjutsu the tsuba is used to help you do locking techniques, there are ninjutsu techniques where the tsuba is used to disarm the opponent and other techniques that are tsuba based. The tsuba is very useful if you know how to utilize the techniques involved.
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Post by grahamts on Oct 28, 2007 10:59:49 GMT
The weight of the Tsuba does make an awful difference to the POB as Chop says. I bought a cheapie sword which had an alloy tsuba and handled like a crowbar I replaced the alloy Tsuba with a heavy, solid brass one that I had and the handling improved beyond all recognition. The POB had moved back from 6" to 5.5" still not perfect but much better ;D
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Post by swordreaper on Oct 28, 2007 13:07:04 GMT
AS an add on to bloodwraith, ninja tsubas are always (well, mostly) square as they can use it as a sort of short ladder where the lean their sword on the wall they want to scale and just slightly stepping on their tsuba (and of course some aerobatic stuff)... Once over the wall, (having a string tied to their swords) they could easily pull the string to retrieve the sword
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Post by rammstein on Oct 28, 2007 15:07:11 GMT
How much of this ninjitsu stuff is popularized myth.
Personally I feel that the whole ladder thing is absolutely laughable...any sources for this?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2007 21:26:49 GMT
AS an add on to bloodwraith, ninja tsubas are always (well, mostly) square as they can use it as a sort of short ladder where the lean their sword on the wall they want to scale and just slightly stepping on their tsuba (and of course some aerobatic stuff)... Once over the wall, (having a string tied to their swords) they could easily pull the string to retrieve the sword Thats Hollywood my friend....... "........."Ninja were cowardly, mystical assassins whom had a rivalry with the samurai To begin this explanation its probably best to state the very basic misunderstanding: that ninja and samurai were two different types of warrior. In fact, ninja (or shinobi, as they were known during the Sengoku Jidai) were simply the special ops equivalent of the samurai. Some books and websites expound the idea that ninja were the warriors who were used when a daimyo needed something done that the "honorable samurai" could not do. Instead, when a job came along (such as spying, assassination, scouting, infiltrating, etc.) that your regular samurai simply was under qualified to do, a daimyo would seek out a samurai who was. There were some samurai who specialized in this; two famous examples were the Koga and Iga ninja who sided with Tokugawa Ieyasu. Hattori Hanzo, who was from the ninja, held the title of hatamoto (banner-bearer), the highest rank a samurai (and only a samurai) could have. The ninja have been so butchered by Hollywood and popular misconception (on both sides of the Pacific) that there simply isn't room to dispel it all. Some fine places to learn about the ninja would be the two books put out by Stephen Turnbull. Irregardless, I will begin to explain some of the more famous misinformation. One simple example is the color ninja wore while on a night mission. Hollywood portrays them in black, in fact, they would wear dark blue (black outlines you at night). Another horrible fallacy is the so-called "ninja-to". The ninja sword is portrayed as straight, shorter, and with a square tsuba (guard). Websites explain that these swords were tools as well as weapons. The very simple truth is there were no "ninja-to". Ninja used the same exact weapons as any other samurai, and treated their weapon with the same respect. The second weapon that is poorly portrayed is the "ninja throwing star". More commonly called shuriken (this was the name for any small projectile weapon), a samurai would use a small knife or spike as opposed to a star. The ninja also used these weapons a lot less than one would expect. Shurikenjutsu was a real art, but it was used by different people during different times, and not always (or even generally) by ninja. The use of "magic" is fortunately being more and more taken with a shaker of salt. Disappearing in a cloud of smoke, hand motions giving them super strength, and magic abilities like flight are all complete myths. Ninjutsu was simply the art of stealth; nowadays, its taken on the general form of bogus sensei teaching karate (at best) in black uniforms, along with some smoke bomb throwing." ..unquote. A lot of more historically accurate information about ninja browsing the forum : forums.samurai-archives.com/index.php
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 3:15:53 GMT
Um, traditionally ninja's were actually common people who were taught martial arts and the arts of assassination. Most of the time the ninja were trying to assassinate the samurai, it was not until later periods that some samurai became ninjas.
As for climbing walls with the katana tsuba, it is possible. If the saya is made out of a decent wood then it is very possible to do. There is alot of myth surrounding the traditional ninja, what i have seen from my friends in regards to their training makes me believe that not as much as i thought was just mystical BS.
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Post by rammstein on Oct 29, 2007 3:26:25 GMT
I'm not saying it isn't possible or didn't happen. It just seems totally absurd.
Again, do you have any proof? Any documents? Well versed people who say this? No offense or anything, I just want to see it said by someone or something reputable. Ninja have gotten FAR too much hype in our society today to make even 1% of what they do sound remotely believable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 3:50:48 GMT
Absolutely they have too much hype in our society, they weren't honourable for the most part, most of the ninjutsu techniques seem very cowardly, alot of it is all about hitting people in the dark. Having said that it looks fairly effective from what i have observed, i would probably need to learn it to really appreciate it but i don't really have the time.
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Post by swordreaper on Oct 29, 2007 8:28:31 GMT
Hmm, sorry for the post then... I've just realised that some of you don't really like the ninjas... I for one am a huge ninja fan... By the way have any of you read books from haha lung?
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Post by rammstein on Oct 29, 2007 10:22:54 GMT
red Dragon, I don't think you understand:
It's not that we don't like ninjas. It's that almost ALL of what you hear is popular misconception and utter BS. It's like saying I don't like medieval europe because I think their swords don't weigh 20 lbs. Ninjas were NOT these super athletic flying demons with aresenals of poisoned shuriken and did backflips over walls.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2007 2:13:19 GMT
Well done marabunta and +1 to you! The shinobi maximized every tactical advantage possible, much like our armed forces do today. Would they use their sword as a step? Possible, however unlikely. The shinobi would normally prepare an escape ahead of time making it unnecessary to leave the sword behind. Also, since the sword was the primary weapon, it would be foolish to leave it lying around. However, the sword in question is not the straight bladed follywood version. They did use a 'normal' looking sword- they had to blend in and a chokuto sword would scream "here I am!" There is very much information available since Hatsumi Sensi opened up ninpo after the death of Takamatsu Sensei. Just throw out all you have learned from the movies first!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 3:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 23:36:58 GMT
the tsuba other than a guard was used to hold chop sticks and a dirk type knife when the samurai/ashigaru was not in combat. In some basic katana tsubas you will see holes in the tsuba one on the left and the other on the right not all tsubas have this though
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