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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2011 18:49:05 GMT
Forgot to mention, another barrel drop-in would be the polygonal rifling barrel. WIKI LinkGuy at the gunstore was saying, with his Chrono it was reading something like 100fps faster with the same loads. IDK much more about them except they were stock on the H&K USP's. Apparently they're stock now in some Glocks(?)
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Post by jeimuzu on Aug 28, 2011 20:55:35 GMT
not worth the $300 to me
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 29, 2011 7:25:04 GMT
I'm pretty sure you can.
Unless things have changed, Glocks come with polygonal rifled barrels.
The wandering groups are the gun, not you. Myself and everyone I know have had the same problem with Glock .40 cals. I just don't think the frame can really handle the recoil. Look at a high speed video of a Glock firing. You'll see how much the frame twists and torques. I think it stems from the tiny slide rails. The 9mm and .45 versions are ok though.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 29, 2011 11:16:54 GMT
The wandering groups are the gun, not you. Myself and everyone I know have had the same problem with Glock .40 cals. I just don't think the frame can really handle the recoil. Look at a high speed video of a Glock firing. You'll see how much the frame twists and torques. I think it stems from the tiny slide rails. The 9mm and .45 versions are ok though.[/quote] I've seen bad groups with Glock .40s, but never in seasoned shooters. My opinion, and really a guess, is that the frames are smooth enough to twist in the hand during early recoil stages. To see if that's a problem, try some peel-n-stick grip panels from Decal Grip. I've used these on unmodified Glocks with good results. Even the stock 9mm Glocks twist a bit in my hand. The Decal Grips will help a lot, if that's the problem.
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 29, 2011 20:46:44 GMT
I never said they shot bad groups. They shoot very decent groups. The only problem seems to be that they don't always shoot them in the same spot. One group might be dead center. another might be to the left, right, low, or high. Basically, the real problem seems to be a wandering zero.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 30, 2011 19:44:44 GMT
"The wandering groups are you, not the gun." I just have to respectfully disagree with this, based on the 2 dozen or so Glocks I've shot fairly extensively.
IMO Glocks don't "wander" in where they put bullets. They are not overly accurate, since they are built with fairly loose slide-to-frame fit and the chamber is rather oversize. But when you put them in a Ransom Rest they pretty much keep everything consistent. I think the real problems people have with them are the "gun-to-user interface". They are slippery. And when you add in the torque of shooting .40 S&W, they seem to really twist around in the hand for a lot of folks (though by no means all).
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Post by jeimuzu on Aug 31, 2011 11:27:04 GMT
I feel no twisting in my hands. Today Im gonna try a different style grip and stance and see if that changes everything.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Aug 31, 2011 18:41:26 GMT
Wandering groups... I've never encountered this problem with my Glock 40's. How significant a dispersion does this produce? (percentage). It may be that my grip is sound and any resulting dispersion is minimized. I use a 2nd Gen Glock23. I should think the 3rd and and 4th gen stocks would aford a better grip. Mike, I would guess that your stock reduction and grip enhancement helped semprini this phenomenon as well.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 31, 2011 22:00:10 GMT
It seems to be more noticeable in Glocks without the finger groves (anything before Gen3 and Gen4) but I have experienced it with all generations. A way to diagnose is, shoot 10+ rounds as fast as you can aim and fire (4-5 rounds per second), without adjusting your grip. Then see if the gun is in exactly the same place in your hand as when you started. If not, the gun is shifting in your hand and will likely contribute to "wandering groups" (unlike Moses, as seen above, it's unintentional and usually unnoticed). I do grip reductions and texturing on all my Glocks precisely for this reason, among others.
A lot of it can be affected by how long your fingers are and how secure your grip on the pistol. My fingers are fairly short and don't wrap as far around an unaltered Glock as someone with longer fingers. So I see this shifting grip more than others may.
Another contributing factor can be, how consistently do you return to the exact same grip on the pistol from range session to range session. This may actually be the problem discussed above, now that I think of it.
If you grip the pistol in such a way as to tend your shots to push left during one range session (or even string of fire), then grip it more correctly the next session, you will see your group locations follow your gripping. I see that quite a bit in classes. Students will be getting tired by the second or third day of class, and grip their pistols a bit differently or inconsistently. Then they start pushing shots left or pulling them right. They invariably think their sights have moved. When an instructor takes their pistol and repeatedly puts shots into the same hole at 10 yards, directly on target, they get a little frustrated or embarassed. But it's a great teaching point to cover how the fundamentals of grip and trigger control affect accuracy. We actually look for it to happen, and plan a teaching point around it.
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Post by Onimusha on Sept 1, 2011 4:51:20 GMT
Let me be clear. The problem I am seeing from several of my friends' Glock .40's is that I'll shoot a 5 shot group of about 2" at 10 yards. Then, I'll aim at the same spot and shoot another 5-shot group. It'll still be about a 2" group, it just won't be in remotely the same place as the last one. Bear in mind, the .40 I had was a gen2. The other 3 I shot were gen 3 (officers' guns). According to people from Glock (as per a conversations with several officers) this problem is the reason for the new recoil spring assembly in the gen 3.5 and 4. That's assuming that the guys at the Smyrna, GA plant know what the heck they're talking about, which, in all seriousness, may not be the case. I once had a guy from legacy sports tell me that he took one of their howa .223 rifles out to a range against people with custom varmint rifles with handloads and out shot them with mil-surp ammo. I am 99.999999999% certain that that is not only a lie, but an insult to my inteligence.
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Post by jeimuzu on Sept 1, 2011 7:10:25 GMT
where are you getting your info for the so called Gen 3.5? because there isnt a step in between 3 and 4. If anything I should have the 3.5 as you say because mine was made 08/02/11....there fore mine is brand spanking new and should be that BUT everything I have read, the so called Gen 3.5 is just the same texture of the Gen 4 but everything else is the same.
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Post by Onimusha on Sept 2, 2011 2:19:14 GMT
My dealer told me that Glock told him that no more gen 3 pistols were being produced. They were shipping out whatever stock they had left on request. After those were gone, that was it on the gen 3. The gen 3.5 was supposed to be the same as the gen 4 but without the grip inserts. I was also told that the gen 4 recoil spring system could be put into the older guns. The gen 4 system, in case you don't know, has two, differently sized springs on the guid rod. I'm not sure what this is supposed to do, but they say it fixes the problems of the older .40s.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 2, 2011 17:42:55 GMT
Oohhh.... Gotcha now. I see that too, but on a less frequent basis. This could be the situation:
Sometimes different people see sights a bit differently. It's complex to describe, but has to do with which eye is dominant, and how dominant. It causes more of an effect if one shooter is a little bit cross-dominant. That's a situation where neither eye is totally dominant, and it causes that shooter to see the sights slightly differently than someone with a clearly dominant eye. This is more often the case with people who see equally well with each eye. It's imperceptible to the shooter. But it can be diagnosed by someone who knows what to look for. It's a situation where the cross-dominant eye shooter will either have to close the less dominant eye, or use sights that don't align the same as other shooters' sights.
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Post by GUEST on Sept 2, 2011 18:23:50 GMT
The reason for the dual recoil springs and guide rod or so they will work right with a flashlight attached. It had nothing to do with accuracy problems. This it what you are calling a gen 3.5. They also had this problem with the 45, but never with the 9mm.
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Post by jeimuzu on Sept 3, 2011 5:53:23 GMT
well whoever said that is wrong. the Gen 3.5 was for law enforcement who wanted the same grip as Gen 4. Gen 3 isnt discontinued as like I have said, I got mine and mine was made last month. The only ones I think is discontinued is gen 2. All the Gen 3.5 is the same exact thing as Gen 3 just a different grip. What makes Gen 4 and gen 3 different is the dual spring ( that cant go into any other generations), texture of the grip, and the strap system. If I was you, I would look at another dealer.....alot of dealers are full of crap and say things that arent true to get you to buy the other pistol instead.
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Post by Onimusha on Sept 3, 2011 10:28:49 GMT
I always close my left eye, unless I'm going full instinctive. It could be that, by some fluke, we all got some lemons. Maybe our ammo was too hot. I don't know. It was some powerful stuff. I'm simply offering my experiences. I don't work on glocks. This is largely due to the fact that all the modifications are pretty much drop-in. I'm a die-hard 1911 guy myself. It's been around for 100 years and the design is basically the same. That speaks to me. I can appreciate the purpose that Glocks try to serve. They are made so that they are comfortable to carry for a long period of time. For that, they're perfect. Besides, most gunfights you hear about happen inside 10 yards anyway. Pinpoint accuracy isn't so important.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 20:38:30 GMT
A .357 Sig will always expand, likewise a .400 Corbon(drop-in for .45 ACP) will too. A co-worker (In a gun store) fired a 155 grain .400 corbon (about 1400-1500FPS) into a pond and told me he never saw a "rooster-tail splash" like that from a handgun before in his life"... Well if it helps my credibility any the magazines expanded a bit too!!! There were three of us firing at target with four orange triangles slowly to see the groups, and firing at 12 oz. cans to make them "dance" for rapid fire...outdoor range, with the pistol on top of a cable spool in no shade in between. Like stated no "complaint" since it was just enough for me to mention it to the owner who stated ,"That's what Glock's do" Is all. But yes the handle felt more soft and squishy from the heat. It's true is all. But I don't care what you think anyway . EDIT: Forgot to ask: Always wondered if the full length Glock barrel will fit into the compact or smaller model??? Thanks.
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Post by jeimuzu on Sept 26, 2011 6:01:25 GMT
Its my understanding that they can.....but its kinda splitting hairs because it will stick out WAY too much.
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