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Post by MrAcheson on Aug 23, 2011 14:31:39 GMT
In comparison to the AR, the Mini isn't that cheap, isn't that easy to modify, isn't that accurate, and isn't actually that reliable. There are carbine training courses out there that won't let people attend with mini-14s. Not because it isn't military enough, but because they always break. I imagine they do stay cleaner than an AR though.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 23, 2011 20:23:50 GMT
I have two older ones. They run pretty well as long as you don't get them too hot. IMHO, most of the reliability problems people have with them can be traced to the aftermarket magazines everyone uses. Until very recently, Ruger would not make Mini-14 magazines for the vcivilian market except for the standard 5-round mags the rifles shipped with. They recently started releasing some 20 and 30 round mags. But they are pricey, though manditory if you require reliability and durability.
Accuracy is not great, as Ruger didn't stress-relieve the barrels back then. Cryoing the barrels on those are supposed to help. I don't know about the barrels they are making now.
The Springfield Armory M1A Scout is a rifle I like. I got to test one of the early ones, before they hit the market, and I really liked it. It was very similar to a standard M1A/M14, just with a bit shorter barrel. Accuracy and reliability seemed to be on a par with the standard size model. I consider it MUCH better than the M1A SOCOM carbine. Can't stand that loud and abusive little brute.
I'm not a good guy to answer this one. There are a bunch of surplus ones on the market, and let the buyer beware. I have heard very good things about the new-made ones from Springfield Armory. The idea of a Garand in .308 is really appealing for some reason.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Aug 23, 2011 20:26:44 GMT
I agree with MrA. I hadn't heard that some carbine courses disallow them. I've never experienced this in AZ or NM, but then no one bothered. And I know of only one person who used a weapon other than an AR15 in tac carbine series. He had an Hungarian FEG (AK). I can't speak to the Mini-14, but the problem I've had with the Mini-30 in the early 90's is that quality magazines were hard to find. AR15 mags are plentiful and most of excellent quality. The A-Team couldn't hit squat with their Mini-14s
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 23, 2011 20:33:00 GMT
That's a darned good point. I've not run a mini-14 through a high round count course. I stick to the M16 and AR15 for that precisely because they are durable, that's what I use all the time, and if anything on/in it breaks I can swap it out in a matter of a few minutes. I could certainly see the mini-14 design overheating quickly, leading to a propensity for parts breakage. Heck, I've overheated my M1A without it taking a whole lot of rounds. And I doubt the Mini-14 is heat treated to stand up to that. So be aware that if you're thinking of serious real-world training that requires high round count and long days of repetitive drills, the mini might best be used in the role of "occasionally shot backup" rifle.
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Post by GUEST on Aug 23, 2011 21:40:22 GMT
I have a WWII springfield M1 Garand it is a fine rifle. My has a new stock and medium weight national match barrel by Federal Ordrance. National match mods did by a gunsmith I can't remember the name of right now. With the right ammo mainly my hand loaded Sierra Match King 168gr bullets it will group appox. 3/4in at 100 yards. Along time ago before I could afford better rifles I had a couple of Mini 14s they were ok rifles as long as you had good mags. 2 to 4in group at 100 yards. They will do since you can't get AR. Had acouple of M1A1s (M14) they are OK but If perfered th HK 91 and FNFAL as a battle rifle. I would go with the M1A1.
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Post by MrAcheson on Aug 24, 2011 1:01:09 GMT
That and some of the mini14's reliability is from running the gas system wide open. Which means a lot more stress on the guns internal parts than you really need just to cycle the action. AR-15s don't have adjustable gas systems, but you can address this issue by playing with buffer and carrier weights.
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Post by Bogus on Aug 24, 2011 1:45:34 GMT
I don't have experience with either platform but from looking around local gun stores I can say that even in gun-friendly states a basic Mini-14 costs considerably more than a basic AR15 without having any "worth it" type features to justify it, and far less parts and customizability options. If memory serves the Ruger was a cheap gun a long time ago but after some high-profile bank robberies involving Mini 14s they artificially jacked the price up to try and make such crimes somebody else's problem.
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 24, 2011 4:04:33 GMT
Hey, Fallen, what kind of scope mount do you have on that M1? That's not a repro M1C mount is it?
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Post by Miekka on Aug 24, 2011 5:39:02 GMT
Sounds like the Mini Ruger is second rate to the AR platform. In my state (MA), the only compliant ARs that I know of are the Smith & Wesson M&P15 and two of the LMT Defender models. It's a shame that the AK variants like the Saiga require a lot of modifications due to the AWB still being in place here because I'm a bit more inclined to go with the trusty piston operation as opposed to the DI where I've heard requires it to be constantly wet and carefully maintained to stay in good order. I was considering the Kel Tec SU-16CA as a nice little plinker even though it is not as robust as an AK or even AR.
I'll definitely be considering the Springfield M1A or a Garand at least since those are definitely compliant.
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Post by MrAcheson on Aug 24, 2011 13:56:38 GMT
Ruger also heavily retooled the Mini a few years ago to try to deal with longstanding issues like accuracy. Somebody has to pay for that. And now that everybody and their brother makes ARs, the relative costs for an AR have also dropped through the floor because of production volume.
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Post by GUEST on Aug 24, 2011 14:20:00 GMT
The scope mount is a K-Loc they are no longer is business. To bad they made good scope mounts all steel, they would drill and tap your rifle for free. If you know how hard a M1 Garand reciever is it was a very good deal. I got the mount and rifle appox 15 years ago when you could get M1 Garands around $270.00. Wish I had of got 2 or 3 more.
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Aug 24, 2011 14:27:18 GMT
Prior to the Ruger re-tooling their Mini platform the Mini was indeed less expensive than an AR. What MrAcheson stated is true - the re-tooling caused the Mini's price to go up and now that there are a rather large amount of AR manufacturers (large and small) the cost of the AR has gone down considerably.
Pair that with the fact that if you can build your own AR you can purchase the parts for a basic mil-spec AR-15 for around $600 maybe even less if you really shop around. Building one isn't actually as daunting as it sounds. I'm no mechanical expert but I was able to strip and re-build my AR lower with just a few basic tools - pin punches, a flat head screw driver and a gun vice. I had to purchase a specific wrench for the castle nut that secured the stock to the receiver but that cost all of $8. You'll need an armorer's wrench for total disassembly and assembly of an upper (due to the barrel assembly) but that's not exactly expensive either. Aside from that basic tools and just a bit of patience can get you through the majority of it. In the end I agree that the AR is a better platform than the Mini although at one point in time if you couldn't afford an AR you might be able to afford a Mini. Not so now.
The Saiga is a good sporting rifle but sadly politics played a part in making sure that its a pain to modify to make it more like an AK than a sporting rifle. I had a Saiga in 7.62x39. I ended up making the mods and playing the parts game to make it an AK but it wasn't fun nor was it easy. The problem with that is if you modify the rifle at all afterwards you still have to keep in mind the parts game or you risk having an illegal rifle. There ARE CA legal AKs available if you live in CA. Otherwise there are some states that have outright banned the AK and AR rifles.
Fallen - an M1 for $270??? Man I wish I'd been able to afford purchasing firearms 15 yrs ago. I was legal then but just didn't have any money (seems I'm back there again lol!). I could have a whole arsenal by now!
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Post by GUEST on Aug 24, 2011 14:34:44 GMT
Back when alot of military surplus firemans were being imported. You could also get SKSs for 69.95 AK47s for 250.00, M1 carbines for $130.00. Ammo was real cheap 7.63x39 $89.00 for 1,000rds, 30/06 180 for 1000rds, 308 for 150.00 for 1000rds. plus alot of other ammo, rifle, and pistols cheap, good ones not junk.
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 24, 2011 18:16:36 GMT
You can still get a rack grade M1 for about $450 throught the CMP. If you're going to customize/refurb, that's the one to get. I'm trying to build an M1C.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Aug 25, 2011 16:33:04 GMT
Portuguese FN 7.62 NATO, $140/1000 delivered. Should have purchased more. If one thinks it hurts now, wait 10 years. We will miss the "deals" of 2011. Buy while you can. One will seldom regret getting what he values. But one will always regret not getting it. (That Swedish Mauser m96 I hesitated to get back in the early 2000s).
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Post by GUEST on Aug 25, 2011 19:42:26 GMT
If you were a police officer you could get police only ammo real cheap 308 AP for $59.00 per 1,000rds still have 3,000rds of it for special purposes. You're right ammo just keeps going up can't afford to shoot as much as I use too not even with reloading my own ammo.
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 25, 2011 21:55:14 GMT
AP rounds are legal for civilian use, just not the tungsten core ones.
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Post by GUEST on Aug 26, 2011 9:09:33 GMT
The ones I have are the tungsten core.
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Post by Miekka on Aug 26, 2011 19:37:02 GMT
Wow, So much information that I don't know where to start. Thank you to everyone for their input on this topic! Between the input given here and some research I've done, I've narrowed down some rifles that are compliant while still being good:
Kel Tec SU-16CA - $770 MSRP - 5.56/.223 - 10 round mag
LMT Defender - $1,500 MSRP - 5.56 - 10 round mag
Marlin 1894 - $677 MSRP -.44Mag or .357 Mag - 10 or 9 tubular mag
M1 Garand - CMP; Fulton Armory; Shuff's Parkerizing - $500-1100; $1,700-2,200; $1,200-2,000 MSRP - 30-06 or .308 if modified - 8 round mag
M1A/M14 - Springfield Armory; Fulton Armory - $1,700-2,500; $2,500-3,300 MSRP - 7.62x51 or .308 - 10 round mag
DSA SA58 Predator - $1,750-2,100 MSRP - .308 - 10 round mag
Arsenal/K-Var Saiga - $825 MSRP - 7.62x39mm - 5 round mag - Arsenal/K-Var says it's compliant despite having a Russian receiver, but MA has the AWB still in place so it would need a certain number of American made parts to be compliant with the ban I think. Would likely need to go to a in state vendor to see if find out for sure.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Aug 26, 2011 21:22:58 GMT
nutnfancy reviews the Kel-Tec 16C (close enough to your California-cleansed 16CA)
Checkout the muzzle flash on the California model (you won't need a tactical light )
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