Difference in sports fencing

I didn't watch all of the saber fencing video since I'm watching something else at the moment, but based on what little I saw, if I had to guess, I'd say it's because of the advancements in technology. With an electronic saber that can tally a hit in less than a second (so long as it's a clean hit, of course), bouts are over much more quickly since a judge can award a hit they may not have seen.

I think there's also the fencing distance; look at the starting position between the two in each video. In the first, they start just out of striking distance, whereas, in the second, they start way outside of striking distance, such that they have to take quite a step before being able to lunge.

A third factor (and this is just my personal opinion) might be the attitude. Today, sport fencing is just that: a sport. It has no bearing whatsoever on the real world, so your only goal is to get that touch in as quickly as possible. In 1933 (when the first video was filmed), swords were still carried into battle (though usually only as an officer's dress piece, from what little I understand of military history) and would be used if absolutely necessary, so using it effectively and properly would have still been significant to the time period and, likely, would have been reflected in the period's sport fencing.

Hi Dave,

i did it for a bit under a year, but I intentionally stayed away from the electric fencing, there was a lot of pressure to go the competitive, point scoring way. I was more interested in leaning to use a sword than the competitive Olympic sport.

It's sure as hell fast and athletic, it's a real cardiovascular workout. That surprised me! It does teach good timing and distance, and there's a lot in the technique, that's what I liked about it. I only was interested in foil, as it teaches finesse in movement, the moves are subtle and quick. I had a very strong offence and could often overwhelm those of equal level to me, but my defence was average.

Like Sean mentioned, I gave up because bouts run up and down in a straight line, and if I overpowereed my opponents by ruuning them backwards as far as they can go, I had to stop there. It would be nice to move around, biut then that would be historical fencing, which is what I would have loved to have learned at the time.

Ignoring risky moves that you'd never attempt with a real sword, sport fencing would most easily translate into the use of a smallsword, where the movements are subtle shifts of the wrist, all finesse and precise timing, all point work, as it's all about the thrust.

Funny thing is even though I'm now studying traditional Japanese sword arts, when my opponents start backpedalling to create distance, I sometimes forget and instinctively change my footwork to western fencing style, pursue and launch into a classic fencing lunge. People spot the fencing influence straight away, but the japanese dont do those moves, so I have to remenber not to do lunges... I must say though, nothing closes the distance or covers as much distance as fast as a lunge, it's quite impressive.

I just wish that there was more traditional western fencing around and that it hadn't gone the sporting route. I'm still interested in learning smallsword though, have ordered the French Smallsword video from the Martinez Academy of Arms to see how much of my earlier fencing training I can translate into a more martial style.

With the electric fencing, epee requires 750 g of pressure and the foil 500 g, while the pressure required to penetrate the body in real swordplay can be more than this. It does teach the bad habit of tapping with the point rather than solid thrusts, just like kendo practitioners tap each other rather than draw cut. My issue with the flick in real combat is that if your opponent takes the minor damage, you potentially open yourself for a lethal thrust. It would be used very sparingly in real life!

Agreed, the split second decisiveness is critical, there's a high degree of mental alertness, and the opportunities are split second, and if you see even a brief hesitation in your opponent, that was the opening to take advantage of.

I'm with Sean, the restrictions and sport conventions failed to hold my interest too. Being a shorter, strong athletic build, my natural position is close in (epee favours tall, long limbed people!) and in foil, I would close in and break past my opponents guard. At that range, both our blades were too long to use, the pommel handy, but if I had a parrying dagger I would be in first. Being physically stronger than most fencers, once I was past their guard, I was trained in grappling arts, and I could easily overpower them, but this was inconsequential in the sport fencing bouts unfortunately. Hence, my disappointment with not being able to learn a complete fighting system.

Are you engaged in any kind of sword training currently? I looked at your pic at what appears to be military sabres, wondering if olympic sabre translates at all to the heavier cavalry sabres or not? If it does, I wish I would have learned sabre instead of foil!

Personally, I like prefer sabres over thrusting swords. I've alwatys liked western military sabres but wouldn't know how to use them! My first sword ever was a custom smallsword, my second a reproduction 1830 French sabre. Now I collect everything!

What reproduction sabres can be used with the techniques in FIE fencing?

What I mean is the historical context, which military sabres handle most like it?

Sorry must have hit the dump instead of submit button:

British Infantry Sabers: M1827, M1845
British Cav Off Sabers: M1821 and derivatives
French: M1882 Cav Legere and Inf Officers Sword
German: M1889 derivatives for Infantry and Artillery
Spanish: Puerto Seguro
American: M1872 Cav, M1902 Officers generic

Quick list fwiw

Thanks Dave! Now I'm going to have to look all these up in my sword books and learn more about them!
This is probably going to mean more purchases...

It's good to talk to a sabre enthusiast. I know it's not authentic, but what do you think of the Cold Steel 1830 Napoleon Sabre, I have one in my collection. You can be totally honest, I don't personalise things with swords, I like to look at things objectively. Also, have you seen their Sabre and Cutlass video, is it worthwhile?

Thanks

I was speaking to a friend who is a French historian who interpreted the blade inscription and I read up on the history, and yes, I noticed that too, CS seriously messed with up the dates!

Thanks, now I know what my sabre is really a copy of. Much appreciated. Heck, if that's a light cavalry sabre, I would hate to see what a heavy cavalry sabre feels like, I guess on horseback that didn't matter overly though.

I quite admire the more elegant sabre blades, if they get better than my replica blade, I would love to see a real French sabre blade, I would probably buy one if I came across one - money permitting!

Agreed, LT is amusing, good entertainment value, but Anthony DeLongis is a highly skilled swordsman, he is very impressive to watch, even in his movie roles. Thanks.

That's probably closer to what you'd call traditional western fencing! ( :