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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 13:07:56 GMT
Dear friend, My name is Jair Francisco da Silva Júnior. I am Brazilian and I ask your help with my sword. I am beginning my collection of Japanese swords because I love Japanese culture and their swords, but do not have adequate information on the subject. I need to know if the blade of my sword is a Showato (WWII) or is simply a modern forgery (if possible, I want the translation of the Mei and details about the Hamon)! Also need to know the approximate age of Koshirae and if it is quality. If you can tell what the approximate value of the blade and what the approximate value of Koshirae be grateful! These are some more details and photos of the sword blade and Koshirae: Total length of the blade: 79 cm Nakago length: 17.5 cm Blade weight: 1,250 kg Blade width: 3,5 cm Blade thickness: 9 mm Sori: 1,5 cm Same Kawa: shark skin Saya with buffalo horn Koshirae metal parts: bronze with silver and gold ornaments. Photos of Blade: skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... DEAE9B!377 Photos of Koshirae: skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... DEAE9B!394 For I have checked my sword is a Showato made by hand with generic steel with a generic Mei says 山 捍 卆 左, translation: 山 捍 (name = Yama-Kan) and 卆 (Sotsu = soldier) 左 (Taisa = Colonel ), then it would have been made for a Colonel. I believe we have the blade mounted in a civil Koshirae luxury shortly after WWII, because he thought the blade good. As you can see, I tried very hard researching before creating this topic, so I'm just asking for your help because I'm not sure if that's right! I trust everything you say and I appreciate all the help! If you need any more information let me know! Thank you! P.S.: I apologize, because I do not speak English, I write so bad! ___________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Júnior
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 12, 2011 14:21:59 GMT
Hello! Your english is fine and I understood everything clearly. Give this topic a couple of days for everyone to notice it and the answers will come Welcome!
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Post by nihontoman on Aug 12, 2011 14:38:00 GMT
I am NO expert, heck, I'm not even a beginner, but I'll just write what I think anyways... while the nakago and the habaki look good, the kissaki looks pretty ugly. maybe that's the way they made guntos in the war era, but I really don't know... also, the tsuba looks a little off, it's not as detailed as I've come to expect from Japanese koshirae... It very well may be Japanese, just not of a top notch quality... fuchi and kashira look like the Chinese stuff. but I may be wrong... the tsukamaki seems a little odd, with fuzzyNON-ALTERNATING ito (I don't know, maybe japanese people weren't concerned those days about alternating itomaki ) and strange "samegawa"... the hamon also is a little weird, looks quite fake to my eyes.... and you can clearly see on some of the pictures that the hamon line is actually double.... all in all, with my VERY and VERY limited klowledge, I would say it is a Chinese knockoff. P.S. Did I already mention "VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE"? Edit: I said that the nakago looks O.K. yes, it at least doesn't look like a chewed up piece of steel, but the nakago-mei are written in a way that's a little odd. It almost looks like deeply acid etched, or stamped, not carved. maybe they did such a thing on gunto, considering they were made in big quantities by machines, but I'm not sure.
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Post by Vue on Aug 12, 2011 14:57:43 GMT
Hi Jair,
Sorry to say but this is a Chinese reproduction and is not a authentic piece. I hope you didn't pay too much for it.
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Post by Crimsoned on Aug 12, 2011 15:34:57 GMT
Chinese reproduction, nakago looks like it was power tooled cut and buffed. The area where the nakago and the munemachi start is incorrect, not filed properly and highly disproportional with a very amateur transition.. Fake hamon Fittings look meh, not really the worst but even if they were Japanese they wouldn't be worth anymore then a Chinese repro. :/ Fake ito/does not alternate. Yes the Japanese did use similar ito at times (seen a Navy piece with similar ito, a little better quality but still crap) but it would alternate and have proper knots
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Post by nihontoman on Aug 12, 2011 15:53:39 GMT
yeah, I'm with you on the nakago, but it at least looks sharp, unlike some other shapeless abominations of nakago jjsilwm, sorry mate, but as it seems that thing isn't Japanese. just some Chinese knockoff.
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Post by masahiro560 on Aug 12, 2011 15:58:28 GMT
Fake Chinese Fake manufactured for the newcomers to japanese sword The Kissaki (Point) looks awfully wrong. The Hamon is etched, not traditionally made The Shinogi (Flat part of the blade, before the edge starts to bevel) occupies half of the blade which is just no. The mune machi and ha-machi (notches where the habaki or collar sleeve sits) is uneven, majority of true japanese sword have the mune machi and hamachi even The mekugi-ana (holes in the tang) is drilled not punched which is traditionally correct for old swords (New swords after the advent of powerdrill is excluded from this) The mei does not look chiseled and is not in proper position for traditional japanese mei, also it is too large as if designed to attract attention of the buyer I ask of you before to buy another sword to research more about japanese sword. It helps alot to know what is true in traditional japanese sense a japanese sword please read this. www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Aug 12, 2011 17:11:04 GMT
jjsilwm, If you intend to buy antique katana in the future, consider this site: www.nihontoantiques.com/ --reputable pieces, here. --Edward
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 21:20:42 GMT
Dear chrisperoni,
Thank you for the welcome! You are very kind (I'm glad that my English is understandable)! I will wait patiently for the answers everyone! Hug!
Dear nihontoman,
You helped a lot, thanks!
Dear Vue, Crimsoned masahiro560 ecovolo and all members who helped me with this sword (including chrisperoni, and nihontoman),
Thank you for your sincerity and delicacy with which they are dealing with my problem! I know that I was deceived and you have all tried to help me understand the truth. Now I know it's a fake Chinese and I'm not deluded. It really is all very confusing to me and it's sad to believe that buying a sword is authentic and then discover that it is a poor Chinese copy! I started my collection too bad, unfortunately! I regret not having consulted the forum before buying the sword! Everything you said is true and now I see it! It's going to be a learning experience and all have a cost (I see that I've paid my)! Now I'm going to spend more on books and try to make contact with a real Nihonto! Thanks for the guidance and links from trusted sites to buy authentic Nihonto! Thank you all for your dedication and your patience with me (a beginner confused)! Hug!
P.S.: I can make free downloads of books specializing in Nihonto? What are the links (have not found any)?
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Post by nihontoman on Aug 12, 2011 22:28:07 GMT
jjsiwm, don't worry, learning is hard. You just learned it the hard way. It happens to a lot of us (well, it hasn't happened to me yet, and hope it never happens ) and you shouldn't feel too bad about it. truth to be told, I've never read a book about nihonto, but I could easily distinguish a nihonto from a fake one because I've been a forum dweller for years (I've just recently registered, but have been here for ages) and reading the info forums have to offer are enough to learn how to distinguish a nihonto form a fake, or "not fake" chitana. I'm not saying that you'll become an expert in those things (you need experience and a lot of knowledge from books and such for that), but you'll never be deceived into something like this ever again other advice would be, to look at nihonto pictures i.e. "sword porn" that really trains the eye and mind. I mean telling a difference between this: www.nihontoantiques.com/fss427.htm from something like this: cgi.ebay.com/HANDMADE-JAPANESE-S ... 1829858914 will be a no-brainer Edit: here's a good source of info: www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 12, 2011 22:51:25 GMT
Hey, jjsilwm. Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that your sword is less than what you were led to believe. I'm glad you chose this forum as it is both very friendly and also has many knowledgeable members who are willing to help. I think you will like it here a great deal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 0:06:26 GMT
Dear a.jordan and nihontoman,
Thanks for the welcome and attention! Learning is really hard, but what good it did not happen to you! I am also happy with the forum because the members are very helpful! Will now be more difficult to commit such errors. It really is much more difficult it happen if we follow all the guidelines here on the forum. Really just being a no-brainer not to tell the difference between the swords that you showed me! I did not think my blade had been made with Tamahagane., but thought it was from WWII. Anyway, I was wrong! Unfortunately I only know the forum too late! Hug!
P.S.: I apologize if I wrote something wrong, because I do not write well in English!
___________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 14, 2011 1:53:11 GMT
For what it'sworth I like the look of your sword and think as long as it didn't cost too much it's still a nice production sword.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 5:31:27 GMT
Dear chrisperoni,
I agree with you: generally, I like the look of it and I think a really cool sword production, very pretty and well made (for a production sword, obviously)! I know that you can not compare with a real Nihonto, but it is beautiful and has some marks of time, like a little old (can be used for decoration). I believe that fake sword made Indians and Chinese are good, beautiful and very convincing (say it is sometimes difficult to distinguish the counterfeit of the real one)! I'm not saying that my sword is one of the best reproductions, but looks nice for decoration! Additionally, the blade is sharp and Nakago is long, then I think I can use the sword to practice if I want (I prefer to use for decoration). I paid more or less the price of a Paul Chen Hanwei monosteel for combat then gives to use for training and for decoration, like a Paul Chen Hanwei, and so the money is not so lost! What do you think? Hug!
____________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 14, 2011 5:58:11 GMT
That's a good attitude. I'm glad that you like your sword. Feel free to ask any questions about future purchases you make. Most of the production companies have been reviewed here and chances are that someone will have had some experience with whatever you are looking at. I look forward to hearing from you again. Good luck, and have fun.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 13:41:49 GMT
Dear a.jordar,
Thank you for your attention and sensitivity! Always ask here on the forum before buying any sword! I read some reviews here and I really enjoyed the forum! Certainly my bad experience will serve as a example for others not make the same mistake! I'll use my sword for decoration, training and tameshiguiri, because i believe my sword serve for this (If I'm wrong, let me know)! Thank you for the welcome! Hug!
___________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 15, 2011 15:08:27 GMT
From the construction it looks fine for use- have tried cutting anything with it yet? It is very fun! Be safe and careful though
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 15:37:35 GMT
Have not tried it, but I gave a slight blow to the timber, such as low power and short distance and entered the wood 1cm (I know not to do it in wood, but I could not resist).
___________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Aug 16, 2011 0:49:02 GMT
JJ, Before cutting wood again, consider buying a tameshigiri stand, and tatami mats: www.swordsofmight.com/tameshigir ... tands.aspx --much easier on your weapons . --Edward
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2011 12:58:05 GMT
Good idea! Thanks ecovolo!
____________________________ Jair Francisco da Silva Junior
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