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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 3:45:31 GMT
What historical signifigance does this seemingly impossible technique hold? or is this technique just a glorified myth? Im not sure but I think I've seen pictures of old drawings displaying this. I would really like to get to the bottom of this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2007 21:27:46 GMT
it is entirely possible. as the blade come down, you grasp the back end with the bottoms of you palms, or the middle if you can handle the cut, then lock you fingers. of course, this takes incredible timing, strength, and skill, it is possible to grasp the blade, and disarm an opponent. That what you get when you devout your life to a goal.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 19, 2007 21:29:46 GMT
seems like a great way to have your palms and finger muscles flayed off, regardless of armor if you ask me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2007 22:34:36 GMT
true enough. But if you can do it, more power to ya i say. Also, i dont think samurai, ronin, etc, wore any armor on their hands besides plates on the top in full battle gear.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2007 12:13:39 GMT
actualy it is quite possible but i think it's rather a technique used as a last resort for one if you had to defend yourself against a sword when you where unarmed don't know if you know the program Mind body and kickass moves but a grandmaster named tanaka actualy does it it's a little later on in the movie enjoy it
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 9, 2007 12:37:51 GMT
Sorry, I gotta play the b.s . card on this one... we are talking about moves that only work when choreographed, but don't take my word for it... let's hear from Obata Toshishiro,SoShihan of the Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2007 19:20:50 GMT
lol, when I saw the title, I though this thread was about caching a rapier blade with a dagger that has long qullions. That is a good way to capture a blade. Capture a fast moving blade with your hands...? That you can hardly even see with your eyes... you have just as good a chance catching it with your teeth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2007 23:35:10 GMT
The successful use of blade capturing techniques between practitioners of equal skill does seem to be highly unlikely, but when there is a significant disparity in skill I feel that these techniques become more achievable.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 9, 2007 23:56:39 GMT
The successful use of blade capturing techniques between practitioners of equal skill does seem to be highly unlikely, but when there is a significant disparity in skill I feel that these techniques become more achievable. According to Obata Toshishiro,SoShihan of the Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai, an expert far greater than you or I , these techniques are only somewhat possible when practioners DO have equal skills, and are COOPERATING. And he is talking about the far easier Mutodori , rather than the near impossible Shirahadori. Toshishiro states that the techniques are useless against an unskilled swordsman, who will swing wildly.... and again , are only possible in choreographed cooperation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2007 3:36:41 GMT
While it is definitely not my place to question Obata Toshishiro's experience, in the interest of civil and open discussion, I can only relate my own experience in bokken and mutodori training (and I am an unskilled practitioner who swings wildly) with experienced friends and I can attest to the efficiency of such techniques against myself!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2007 14:12:06 GMT
In this clip of Lone Wolf and Cub I think that the Yagyu assasins demonstrate the only real practical uses of this technique its about 1\3 the way in
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2007 14:47:34 GMT
Wow, fusion!
I must say after seeing those clips has left me disinterested in watching Lone Wolf and Cub, even though it has been recommended to me by a friend... Shintaro Katsu as Zatoichi all the way for me!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2007 21:53:21 GMT
I liked the clip,
enough so that I started looking for these movies,
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2007 19:54:20 GMT
I watched an episode of Mythbusters last night and they showed that arrow catching and sword catching were busted for the average human.
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Post by rammstein on May 1, 2007 20:06:09 GMT
Voyager, I'd say that using a 20lb bow, arrow catching is a pretty straight foreward task. However I challenge someone to find a real bow that was 20 lbs and meant for realistic use (i.e. not a childs bow). Real bows could be in excess of 150 lbs and often more, regardless of culture. The velocity behind that is amazing and I'd say that the average human would have to be on some pretty strong juices to be able to even react before the arrow passes, let alone posessing the skill and precision to snap it out of the air at those speeds. Sword catching is not impossible. At least not realistic sword catching. Catching a downward stroke with the palsm of your hands against maximum force and speed from the swordsman is not realistic and therefore, busted. I do think that someone actually could catch a sword if timed correctly, but only after the cut was executed.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2007 20:42:12 GMT
I agree with what you said Rammstein. In controled situations each is doable, but in real type combat where an arrow can travel 180 mph (ish) at semi close range is hard to swallow. As for the sword catching, with a realistic (I forget the travel rate and force they used) swing the hands received some damage on clasping the blade. Perhaps there is an angle issue they didn't take into account on their man made catching rig.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2007 22:55:40 GMT
Easier to dodge the blow and control the sword/hilt/swordsman while they are still "lying spent".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2007 5:30:35 GMT
Trying to stopping the blade is a silly exercise that is obviously flawed...
Most unarmed techniques vs weapon that I've witnessed involve getting off the line of attack and using the leverage of the weapon against the wielder.
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Post by tajima on Jun 14, 2007 6:20:24 GMT
" Also, I dont think samurai, ronin, etc, wore any armor on their hands besides plates on the top in full battle gear. "
I'm just going to poo on that, because most samurai wore a "Mitten" shaped hand, but it could have been cut through. I just wanted to point it out =)
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Post by grahamts on Jul 18, 2007 9:02:07 GMT
Hi guys, there are numerous techniques for disarming an opponent with a sword which work if you are lucky, skillful and plain desperate but NO PRACTICAL ones which work by trying to trap the blade on the downward stroke. As Rammstein said "seems like a great way to have your palms and finger muscles flayed off, regardless of armor if you ask me". If somehow miraculously you do trap the blade all the swordsman has to do is twist the sword, pull and remove your fingers I have discussed this with senior Sensei from various styles including Iaido, Aikido, Aiki Jutsu, JuJutsu and Nimpo and the only school which has a disarming technique similar to that described is Nimpo (NinJutsu). However as with all of their seemingly impossible techniques there is a Gotcha! One of their standard tools is a steel claw that was used for assistance in climbing, if they happen to be wearing these and are attacked by a guard using a vertical cut, then again if they are lucky etc, the sword can be trapped in the claws and the blade broken by a quick twist of the wrists. The Nimpo instructor wasn't terribly impressed with the technique as it basically relied on luck both bad and good - ie the Ninja shouldn't have been spotted and then be lucky enough to get the timing just right, unlikely if he wasn't good enough to avoid notice in the first place Thats my 2 pence worth, Graham
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