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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2006 18:45:19 GMT
I've always wanted to pursue the art, and now that I am living in New York City I figure it would be a great place to start. I live on the upper east side and found NYC Kendo www.nyckendo.com. It looks like a good place. Anyone heard of them. Or familiar with any other reputable places in NYC? I'm the kind of guy who really likes to be prepared before I start anything. Any old timers that got any tips or anything I should know before starting? Thanks in advance ~Tim edit: Apparently no need to use HTML =) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2006 19:12:14 GMT
Have you studied a martial art before? I can give you some tips and advice before you start.
I practice Bujinkan, so I can tell you a little of what JSA's are about, but I have not studied in a formal kendo or iai dojo. I also studied Tae Kwon Do (TKD) for years and, when I was about 16, became an official unlicensed (the dojhang closed before I could get my license) instructor.
L.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2006 12:38:08 GMT
anyone willing to teach me some really basic sword control, looking for something like doing karta but for swords instead of hand to hand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 4:12:19 GMT
Nope, never studied a martial art before. I have always been a bit of a sword fanatic and looking for something that I could enjoy doing and maybe get a little work out doing it =)
~Tim
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 21:35:00 GMT
Hi neighbor, I live in NYC too. Perhaps I can save you from corrupting yourself with that Japaneese stuff, lol. Just kidding, I am interested in all sword arts. After you check out the Kendo place, come by and check out out Rapier / dagger practice in Astoria NY. Last stop on the N train. Its only $5 a session once a week. Currently Tues nights 8pm to 10pm at The Rock (gym). We rent out a private room. We may be shifting to Sunday nights at the end of the month.
I may check out the Kendo class too. I would also be interested in testing my rapier/ dagger against your katana.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 22:56:47 GMT
<snip>I may check out the Kendo class too. I would also be interested in testing my rapier/ dagger against your katana. We tested this in my Bujinkan class. We had a young man, named John, come in. He has studied european fencing all of his life and he was interested in learning some of the JSA. Well after a few classes he felt like he could still defeat us with a rapier. He mentioned it several times and we eventually gave in and allowed him to bring his epee in. One of us suit up and used a shinai against him. We beat him everytime. Now this isn't to say that the katana is better! We were completely open-minded, as was he, and we continued our research online. I did have some good videos that showed rapiers and european blades against shinai and katana. They were very interesting. It turns out that it's really an equation of chance, skill, confidence, and respect for your opponent. The wins and loses were completely half-and-half. Sometimes the katana lost, sometimes the rapier lost. If I can find some of those videos I'll gladly start a new topic for us to discuss.  L. |
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Post by rammstein on Dec 11, 2006 23:06:54 GMT
actually, in terms of rapier vs. katana, I'd put my money on the katana however much I admire the rapier far more.
The katana has more heft and is versatile at cuts AND thrusts. Therefore it has weight behind it and can theoretically parry far better than a flimsy epee would. also, you can score points with more than just the very tip of the sword making close combat as well as normal distance advantageous towards the katana.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 23:44:00 GMT
actually, in terms of rapier vs. katana, I'd put my money on the katana however much I admire the rapier far more. The katana has more heft and is versatile at cuts AND thrusts. Therefore it has weight behind it and can theoretically parry far better than a flimsy epee would. also, you can score points with more than just the very tip of the sword making close combat as well as normal distance advantageous towards the katana. This is how I thought at first; however, let's look at this - The rapier has a sharp edge running down it's length. It's not powerful enough to hack you in half, but it can leave a rather nasty wound. The business part of the blade is the point. The sword is designed to dive tip-first into your flesh and piece a heart of lung. The katana is more versatile, sure. The blade is designed for a single reason: to sever body parts. It is not designed to open wounds, it is not designed to be thrust into a lung, it is designed to cleanly, efficiently, and effortlessly cut a body part, such as an arm, from the body, completely removing it. For the katana to work properly you'll need to get close to your opponent. Your opponent will not let you get this close. If you attempt to dive inside his range, thus putting yourself out of harm's way, you risk diving onto his rapier. The trick to winning with a katana is CLOSING THE RANGE which a rapier is designed to prevent. If you are up against anyone with any form of experience in using a rapier then your chance of winning is effectively cut down to nil. The only reason we won is because Bujinkan is ninjutsu and shinobi are sneaky bastards. This article is one which we used in our research. We feel it is very accurate and honestly depicts what would happen. L. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 0:03:20 GMT
Nope, never studied a martial art before. I have always been a bit of a sword fanatic and looking for something that I could enjoy doing and maybe get a little work out doing it =) ~Tim In answer to you, good sir: The main difference in martial arts today would be "sports" and "arts". Sports, like Tae Kwon Do, modern Karate, modern Kung Fu, etc. (basically, if they host tournaments for it, it's a sport, there are a few exceptions) are not to be studied by the serious warrior. These are merely a collection of modified and perverted movements used to win in a structured competition. You do not use TKD, Karate, or Kung Fu in a real fight because you'd be killed. Arts, like Bujinkan, ancient Kung Fu, ancient Karate, etc. do not have structured tournaments or competitions. This is because these arts are designed and developed to defend and attack. I practice Bujinkan, so we'll use that. Bujinkan was developed by warriors ON the field of battle. Ancient Karate and Kung Fu were developed from war strategies, pictures, and animals. In an art you do not fight to win, you fight to survive. There is no such thing as a three-round match, there is no such thing as a winner or loser, there is no such thing as "forms" or "katas" or "poomsae" (there are a few theoritical katas in Bujinkan and in Karate, but they're not for fighting, only to learn the idea of a movement). You cannot learn these arts shadow-boxing. You have to develop these on another person in 1 on 1 fights in a class under a recognized instructor. If you got in a fight on a street then you'd use an art, like Bujinkan, because you would want to survive. Bujinkan isn't perfect. If you are in a knife fight chances are you will be cut, but at least you will survive; because that's what an art is about! The winner is/are the one(s) who survived at the end of the day. I would suggest learning an art. They're not pretty or flashy, like a sport, but they will teach you real ancient techniques which are proven to keep you alive. I would suggest contacting tsafa, since he is in your area, and asking him to direct you towards credible schools. If you are interested in Bujinkan then let me know and I'll try to help you find a registered and recognized dojo in your area. Also, when you first begin to learn how to use a sword in an art you will first be given a shinai, so don't bother investing in a sword yet. YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO USE IT! It's like this: 1. At least 2 years with a shinai 2. After shinai comes at least 2 years with a Bokken 3. After bokken comes at least 2 years with an iaito (unsharpened katana) 4. If you prove yourself after all this you will have a session where you will sit down and discuss your options with your instructor. If you chose to adventure into the world of katana then they will explain what kind of sword to look for. After all your training with them they will know you best and be able to pick out a sword that you will be awesome with. A shinai teaches you basic forms/movements and responsibility with a sword. You will need to sand it, oil it, clean it, disassemble it, repair it, etc. You have to maintenance it constantly (like a real katana) to keep it nice. A bokken helps you understand what a real sword feels like, both in shape and weight. This needs little maintenance. (sanding and oiling mainly) An iaito is a real katana that was designed not to hold an edge. This will help you learn what a sharpened katana feels like and how it handles without the risk of a live edge. You will care for it like a sharpened blade. (You will need to take it apart like a sharpened katana, check the meguki, check the wraps, oil it, polish it, etc.) If you don't know how to care and handle your katana by then then please contact me. I will help assist you by hitting you in the head with a brick.  Cheers, L. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 14:38:23 GMT
Wow, lots of reply's. Thanks for all the info. I like your thoughts on arts vs sports. I'm really not looking for either in particular, but still very good info. Just looking for some self growth. I didn't realize that much time was involved in those classes. I guess the best way is go down to the dojo and check it out. That leads me into another question. What should I be looking for when I go and check it out? What are some signs that it is a good place or something to stay away from? Thanks =)
~Tim
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 21:28:39 GMT
There is so much to learn...so little time...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2006 18:16:11 GMT
I started taking Shinkendo in May 2006 and it is a pretty good way to learn JSA-you learn the basic things required first such as suburi (sword swinging techniques) aisabaki (footwork) battodo (drawing the sword) for starters.
Then you will learn sparring skills (tachiuchi) with a partner to learn timing, blocking and so on. I was looking for a dojo that taught Iaido and found this instead-which is good because you don't have to spend a lot of time kneeling like with Iaido (I am not a youngster anymore!) which is not to say an a older person cannot do Iaido-this just works for me.
Learning the footwork is absolutely essential to develop good balance and form-all skills work together. You start with bokuto (bokken or wood sword) we use two different types-a light weight which looks more like e real katana and heavy weights for tachiuchi (sparring) but I and a lot of others use our heavy weights all the time-it helps develop strength and speed.You also learn the proper way to noto (resheathing the sword)-which is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS if not done with absolute precision (when using a shinken) Even a "dull" iaito (an unsharpened metal sword used for practice) is sharp enough to do real damage if handled carelessly.
Once a student achieves sufficient skill they may participate in tameshigiri (test cutting) which will quickly tell you and the sensei if you have been paying attention to your lessons and practicing your suburi and katas-you will most likely use a dojo cutter (live blade) which has been approved for use in test cutting. I do not know about other JSA but we are not allowed to purchase a shinken unless approved by the sensei-and we are not allowed to pratice tameshigiri alone-it must be supervised by a sensei.
This is for a good reason-firstly if you do not know what you are doing you could seriously injure yourself or someone else-shinken are not toys-you could bleed to death in a matter of moments.
Secondly-if there is not someone experienced there to tell you what you are doing wrong when you make a bad cut, you waste your time praticing tameshigiri. Not to mention you risk damaging your sword-a bad cut can bend a sword or even snap a blade. Anyone can hack tatami mats with a razor sharp shinken-but the point is to learn skills-if you are seriously considering taking JSA, whether it is Iaido, Toyoma Ryu, Kenjutsu, Kendo or Shinkendo-whatever. Finding a dojo and practicing with a sensei-even if you have to drive a bit out of the way, or take a public transportation-it is worth it.
You just cannot learn the skills from books or videos the way you can in a real live setting-the books and videos are great supplements-but just cannot compare with learning from a sensei.
If you are really serious about learning the skills-find a dojo-try a couple if possible-and ask permission to observe a class and see if it is what you might want to try. Look at a couple of different arts if you can-say Iaido, and Kendo and compare them-ask questions!
Learning the terminology is tricky (at least for me it is!) as the commands and katas are all in Japanese-so you have to become familiar with the language at least as far as the art is concerned-but it comes after a while. I love this stuff-it is addicting! Give it a try-and write about it in the forum and let us know how it turns out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 3:49:13 GMT
actually, in terms of rapier vs. katana, I'd put my money on the katana however much I admire the rapier far more. The katana has more heft and is versatile at cuts AND thrusts. Therefore it has weight behind it and can theoretically parry far better than a flimsy epee would. also, you can score points with more than just the very tip of the sword making close combat as well as normal distance advantageous towards the katana. Ramstein, my rapier weights 2 lbs 8 onces and it has a very simple hilt. With a Papenhimer (clam shell) hilt, it can weight nearly 3.5 lbs. The rapier should not be confused with the shortsword, which resembles the modern epee. The rapier is typicaly used with an offhand weapon; dagger, cane, clock or second rapier, given a person the ability to block and attack simotaniously or attack with both weapons simotaniously. There is also the distance issue. A katana has an 11 inch handle and 29 inch blade. A short rapier has a 35 inch blade. The long one has 40 inches. Those are the two standards. The katana is not to be underestimated though. Its two handed nature can allow its user to make some very powerful strikes that may knock the rapier way off line and unable to recover in time. I am hoping to find someone who practices Kendo to do some experiments. But then again how can you tell if both people are at the same level within their field. You would have to get two champions in each feild to fight each other to be able to draw some good conclusions. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 4:02:23 GMT
Karma to you Tschai. That was a very informative post. Can you please expand on what ever style involves full contact hits. What is the nature of the hits what are the target areas. What armor do you wear. What are the various types of strikes and guards. It would be useful to use western swordmen to learn something of the eastern styles.
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