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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 20:43:51 GMT
Hi all, this is my first post on the SBG forum, my sword knowledge is poor and i only wish to increase it  My question is what if any are the compariable differences between T-8 and T-10 high speed tool steels for sword blades. I've read a few bits of info suggesting that it is the carbon content, and that it is a matter of durability. I ask this question because of the offer between the two different steels on the site www.buyiaito.com/29-clay-tempered-series. Also, reviews for this manufacturer seem promiseing, has anyone any experience with them that they wish to share, or ar any advice for me in dealing with them? Thankyou all in advance  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 10:02:43 GMT
It appears that after a little more research, the T-8 is possibly similiar to the AISI 1080 high carbon steel blade, and the benefit of the monosteel T-series is the higher ratio hardness. T8=57-58, T10=59-62 hardness, cutting edge, blocking back. The T-series blades and said to be superior to medium to high carbon blades because they have less impurities to begin with, giving a more pure quality blade, cut from single billets of steel. Hope this was helpful for anyone, as it was for me, and welcome any responses and or corrections. |
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Post by Student of Sword on Jun 27, 2011 11:47:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 14:24:00 GMT
Thankyou for your reply, so a T8 high speed tool steel blade is similiar to a stainless steel blade, which, im pretty sure isnt in the same leage as a T10 blade, so it would be well worth paying a little extra for a T10 then If the T8 had a very good heat treatment, it could be a very hard sword, which could be a good/bad thing?, im still learning After following your link, i feel like a can of worms has been opened up for me, lol, so many 'other' grades of steel. I guess maybe i should follow the more common grades of steel and when i learn and know more, then invest in a higher end quality blade, atm i don't mind spending $200-300 on a custom job that i think looks cool, so long as it can not break or chip after cutting tatami or the equivelent im happy. Thankyou again for your response, your help is kindly appreciated. |
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jun 27, 2011 15:54:22 GMT
no, I would not say that it is similar to stainless at all. T8 seems to be a slightly lower carbon T10. I'm not sure how the alloying effects this but 80 points of carbon is generally what metallurgists call "Eutectoid steel" meaning that the steel has all the carbon it can use to get hard and adding any more doesn't really increase that, but does change some other properties such as welding temp and heat treatment methods. some of the alloying elements that are used will deepen the hardening or help it get harder or all manner of other effects so some steels do get harder than 1080 plain carbon steel but there is definitely a point of diminishing returns and it is in the area of 80 points of carbon.
the AISI has no authority over Chinese steel production so the Chinese can make a bar of mild steel with 10 points of carbon and call it T11, 5160, 9260, 1340, or Mike if they want to, they have to only answer to their own governmental authority. it seems as though T8 and T10 steels being produced in China are fairly consistent and seem to produce good quality swords
there's a lot of hype around steel types but the truth is this: steel type makes very little difference in the final product and you, the sword buyer, should not worry too much about it except to make sure that the steel type used is one that is acceptable for making swords. I have seen swords made out of plain old 1060 that were harder, and better than T10, 5160, 9260, 1095, or any other material you could name. i have also seen swords made of other steels that are as good or better than anything else. the determining factor here is the craftsman much more than the steel. my advice is always for the customer to choose the craftsman but to let the craftsman choose the steel.
that being said I see no reason why the T8 blade couldn't be as good as the T10 but here's the question: what makes the T10 blade more expensive? I really doubt much of that cost is the difference in the steel cost. steel costs very close to the same amount no matter what kind it is (until you get into some of the really high-tech alloys). I would suspect that the T10 sword gets a more skillful or labor/skill intensive process and that is what produces the better sword for which they charge more. T10 is a popular steel and they know that putting the T10 lable on a sword is going to help create buzz about the sword. it is a marketing decision to make the T10 blade the better blade, they could very easily make the T8 blade the better one but it would not be as smart from a marketing perspective. if you can afford the better blade get that one.
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Post by Student of Sword on Jun 27, 2011 16:15:52 GMT
T10 Composition:
C = 1%
Si = .32%
Mn= .36
P = .031
S = .029
Sources:
(1) "Micro Structure of Laser Processed T10 Carbon Tool Steel." by Xianzhang Bu of the Technology Department, Changchun Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics.
(2) "Effects of power ultrasonic treatment on microstructure and mechanical properties of T10 steel." by Qingmei Liu, Qijie Zhaia, Feipeng Qia and Yong Zhang of the School of Materials Science and Engineering, Shanghai University.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Jun 27, 2011 16:52:47 GMT
yup very similar to each other indeed. from batch to batch each of these steel will vary some but over all will be pretty much the same. that Micro structer paper is an interesting read I'm glad it was found. it was one of the key factors in finally nailing down the properties of T10
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Jun 27, 2011 17:25:20 GMT
I just did a look through a whole bunch of steel composition lists and the 'T' series steels don't really seem to match anything out there, nor define themselves by any special composition. The Sulfur and Phosphorus seem to be just inside the maximum tolerable amounts for manufacturing ANSI designation steels. I couldn't find any maximum limitations for Manganese, as the content was specified in every single type I looked at, and always higher than .4%. The maximum tolerance for Si is listed as '.15/.35', which I imply to mean two standards. If this is the case it seems that all of the alloying elements fall just inside the acceptable limits for ANSI steel. If I am reading this correctly T8 and T10 would be barely passable 1080 and 1095. I can't say I know enough to comment intelligently on what I found, but it seems interesting.
T8 T10 ANSI Maximum if not specified*
C .80 1.0
Si .35 .32 .15/.35
Mn .40 .36 Couldn't Find Specification
P .035 .031 .035
S .030 .290 .040
*I only found these maximums on manufacturer information, not as an abstract ANSI standards document. My main reaserch sources are wikipedia and www.timken.com/en-us/products/Steel/productlist/types/Pages/default.aspx |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 2:09:53 GMT
I managed to find out a little about T8 and T10 high speed tool steels, as there are many, many grades of the T-series steel. The T8 and T10 are steel used in the application of cutting tools, more commonly found in your average backyard tool shed and factories, i dont know when it was first uesd as a sword steel, but i think the benefits are that these days you can now buy billets(?) of steel without impurities, therefor not needing a folding process to strengthen your blade. Because of this, the man hours needed to forge a blade are drastically reduced, thus reducing the price. Im sure if one was to 'shop' around you could find a very reliable skilled smith who could make a very decent 'cutting' sword made from T10 for an average of $500. One of the things ive learnt from this forum, and other resources of info, is that although the grade, type of steel, is important, it is only made great by the one who forges it, and only made famous by the one who wields it. Im sure at the end of the day, a good baseball bat, or backyard Hoe, axe etc.. is just as good on the field of battle. Im thinking about buying a custom job from Zhisword Forge, www.buyiaito.com/ looking to spend about $500, if i do, i will try to do a review of the sword along with pics and specs for anyone who is interested. Forge time is about 7-10 weeks for a sword of that price apparantly. I like this site though because it does seem to have a lot of options for customising your sword, as well as trying to cater for most types of budgets. |
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My question is what if any are the compariable differences between T-8 and T-10 high speed tool steels for sword blades. I've read a few bits of info suggesting that it is the carbon content, and that it is a matter of durability. I ask this question because of the offer between the two different steels on the site www.buyiaito.com/29-clay-tempered-series. Also, reviews for this manufacturer seem promiseing, has anyone any experience with them that they wish to share, or ar any advice for me in dealing with them? Thankyou all in advance 
