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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:01:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 21:01:54 GMT
Check out these cool flails. One of them is stainless steel, but it looks wild. I'd like to get my hands on a flail at some point. What battle ready flails do you guys recommend? www.armor.com/2000/catalog/item144.htmlhome.att.net/~steven.Licata/flail.htmlHere's some info I picked up from wikipedia * Unlike a sword or mace, it doesn't transfer vibrations from the impact to the wielder. * It is difficult to block with a shield or parry with a weapon because it can curve over and round impediments such as shield or weapons and still strike the target. * It provides defense whilst in motion. How does it defend while in motion? According to a different web site, "The flail was highly effective as an offensive weapon but difficult to use in defence" Which is it?
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:17:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 21:17:15 GMT
Oh yeah... flails are awesome. Great way to get around sheilds and pole arm blocks. It is a force mulitiplier cause the weight is at the end. You would normaly use it with a shield, so the shield does most of your blocking. The chain can block too because in mid swing because it will become taunt. Contrary to what you might see in some old movies the flail will not wrap around a sword, it will strike it the same way another sword would because while in motion the chain is taunt. It will only wrap around something held ridgedly like a shield or a poleare held with both hands. While not in motion, it is just a stick with a ball at the end of a chain which is pretty useless. One interesting way to hold the flail is to hold the stick near the chain. That way while the ball is in motion you can block or hit with the bottom of the stick. If you put a spike at the end of the stick you now have something to stab with. The flail can be dangerous to the user. On horseback even more dangerous as the horse may hit uneven ground, you my hit yourself or even worse your own horse who will not like you any more.
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:19:32 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 5, 2007 21:19:32 GMT
I concure with tsafa, he did his homework...but...I think you mean taut, not taunt .
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:23:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 21:23:56 GMT
blahhh ... taut.
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:27:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 21:27:30 GMT
I'd go with the one from www.armor.com. The stainless steal one is pretty and all, but you KNOW you're gonna feel like swinging it around a bit once you get it. ;D Both the spines and the chain of the stainless one don't look like it'll handle much roughhousing.
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:28:57 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 5, 2007 21:28:57 GMT
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 21:41:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 21:41:26 GMT
I'm liking that #144 German one. Beefy looking chain, and a painful looking ball. Also if I read right, the little spikes on the chain would be a good preventative against anyone, barehandedly, trying to grab hold of it in defence.
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Flails
Jan 5, 2007 23:06:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2007 23:06:58 GMT
The flail in the second link is the same as one of the ones I've posted, but I like the lighter one more. One day I'll get it.... Thanks for the info tsafa! Skilmstr, although you're absolutely right about using the flail if I get it, I'm not sure I can trust myself with it
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Flails
Jan 6, 2007 1:18:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2007 1:18:17 GMT
You should definetly practice with something less dangerous. Start with a broomstick, rope and tennisball. Then you can move up to thicker stick, chain and softball. I don't know if you ever practiced with nun-chucks but those of us that have know how often you hit yourself.
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Flails
Jan 6, 2007 1:20:18 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 6, 2007 1:20:18 GMT
well when your in armor, glancing blows of your own make aren't likely to hurt. Only full force intentional blows will be effective.
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Flails
Jan 6, 2007 6:51:52 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2007 6:51:52 GMT
You should definetly practice with something less dangerous. Start with a broomstick, rope and tennisball. Then you can move up to thicker stick, chain and softball. I don't know if you ever practiced with nun-chucks but those of us that have know how often you hit yourself. I have 2 nunchucks, one real and one plastic. I almost always use the plastic ones, and just like you, I've hit myself a number of times I like your suggestion of a stick, rope and tennis ball. There are way too many things I want to try, but so little time I agree Rammstein, your own blows might not be as damaging, but I bet you wouldn't look as proficient in combat and might give your opponent a hint about your own skills. I have a feeling flails weren't used for fancy moves like the nunchuks and therefore are less likely to hit yourself. Having said that, I'm sure a great deal of skill is needed to master the flail.
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Flails
Jan 6, 2007 20:59:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2007 20:59:35 GMT
well when your in armor, glancing blows of your own make aren't likely to hurt. Only full force intentional blows will be effective. The flails in the pictures have some very pointy spikes on them. I think even a light blow will hurt you. I don't think I would even hit my tire-pell with that unless I have a lot of practice under my belt with some simulator flail (and I don't yet). The ball at the end of a chain could be very hard to control the first time, especialy if you hit something near you accidently and it bounces back when you don't expect it. There is no doubt the spiked flail is an awesome weapon, but I don't think it was very common. I think the reason for that is the inharrent danger to the user. I'm just specutlating here. I wish we had some reliable statistics of the weapons used over time. If you start practicing with a simulator flail, it would be a good idea to hold your shield in front of you. First, cause that is how you would use it anyway... and second to protect you from yourself ;D
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Flails
Jan 6, 2007 21:10:32 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 6, 2007 21:10:32 GMT
I wouldn't use a flail on the tire pell any day. Tires are rubber. Rubber has a lot of spring to it. By clobbering it with something that you don't have direct control of (a chained weapon. You don't have direct control of the flail's head. Centrifical force does, and once that force is apruptly stopped, the chain is no longer taut) you risk hurting yourself with the recoil from the tire.
Tsafa, I'm gonig to disagree about the pointy spikes. I really don't think that they are "sharp" per se. If a flail was sharped it would dull very fast because of the heavy abuse placed on it during combat. If, instead, the flail was a bit blunt, that abuse wouldn't be so damaging.
So while those flails may look sharp, I doubt that they can really cut the skin unless really pressed hard.
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Flails
Jan 7, 2007 1:32:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2007 1:32:42 GMT
I have seen examples of flails that definetly did not have sharp points. The either had screws like flat heads or that aprear to be square blocks. So there are many variations.
Unfortuanly flails are illigal for SCA use. It seems they are concerned with the chain getting under the helmet or if the head comes off the chain could fly through the mask. The minimum diamiter of all weapons is 1.25" and that would not make sense with a chain. I think they could use a very thick rope.... I have recommded it. I have seen some people experiment with flail use unofficialy, but that is not enough to establish wide spread tested and proven methods of attack and deffense. I think the use of flails in the SCA would really shake things up for the shieldmen. Widespread use of it would probably bring to surface methods of use that we have not thought of. I have not possed this question in a while, I will pose it again and see what they tell me.
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Flails
Jan 7, 2007 1:41:30 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 7, 2007 1:41:30 GMT
what about 'safe" flails, like those made from rubber, with rope instead of chain? that would certainly be safe enough. Only problem would be whether or not it can be felt under the armor. Maybe a more sensitive honor system against flails?
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Flails
Jan 7, 2007 2:51:08 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2007 2:51:08 GMT
I think the flail will do some damage regardless of whether the spikes are sharp or not. I would definitely NOT consider playing around with a real one. It would be great if plastic/rubber ones exist kinda like the plastic/rubber nunchuks. It is a really awesome weapon, and I agree with you tsafa about the inherent danger to the user. By the way, I wonder how often the ball got stuck in armour...
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Flails
Jan 7, 2007 3:13:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2007 3:13:46 GMT
Here's an excerpt from www.middle-ages.org.uk/flail.htm" Flail Training Skill in the use of Medieval weapons and understanding the strategy of Medieval Warfare was necessary and a played a vital part in Medieval life. The training required by Knights and Foot Soldiers to use the Flail : Training method - The training method practised in the use of the flail was based on strength and accuracy in hitting, or 'bashing' the target using momentum to increase the force A "hit" was scored in Medieval weapons training by making light contact with a defined target area. A blunted or wooden weapon was used when practising with an opponent " __ Check out this nice looking skull Flail www.mwart.com/xq/ASP.productlg/pid.1502/qx/medieval-spiked-skull-flail.htm
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Flails
Jan 7, 2007 4:40:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2007 4:40:04 GMT
Nice link Sargon.
I got some feed back from some of the SCA seniority regarding use of flails in practice. Apparently they are concerned about them wrapping around peoples arms and dislocating them in melee's as people are running past each other swinging these things. I personly think its a long shot, but thats what they say.
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Flails
Jan 8, 2007 1:40:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2007 1:40:00 GMT
dislocating arms??? that doesn't sound easy to do with a flail! Maybe the have other reasons that they would not like to share...
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Flails
Jan 8, 2007 2:57:25 GMT
Post by rammstein on Jan 8, 2007 2:57:25 GMT
hm...Remind them that the chain is not very long. Also, if it can barely wrap around a sword, I'd think it would have a lot of trouble wrapping around an arm, not even considering whether or not the chain is even long enough to do that.
Tell them that "someone" says that if they are going to be that cautious, what they should be worrying about is wrist fractures and sprains from the sword.
(also, I'd believe that the flail may have to have a basket grip in order to be more safe. May look absurd, but *rational* safty needs to be maintained.)
Sorry I've not been on at all today. My great-uncle had a minor stroke so we went to visit him.
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