Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 21:18:36 GMT
Hi, I recently started looking into these types of swords. Forgive me but I will refer to them as katana's. If this is incorrect, feel free to correct me so I can learn what is proper. I started wondering if it is possible to obtain a legitimate "Japanese steel" katana here in Canada? Again, forgive me but I do not know better, but is that the best type of metal that they are made with? Finally, I found a local store which carries some however I am unsure as to the quality. One particularly struck my attention and how I actually found this forum... I was doing some research after I found THIS SWORD in a local shop and was actually wondering of the quality. It lead me to THIS THREAD which in turn lead me here. So, in conclusion I am looking to pick up an "authentic" sword and not some cheap fake. Would this sword be good? I completely understand that this is a sword based on a movie so which would lead me to believe it is just a simple fake, but after reading that thread it gave me hope that it is indeed actual good quality. Any help / insight would be greatly appreciated.  |
|
|
|
Post by Curgan on May 19, 2011 21:39:08 GMT
Hello and welcome to the forum,
First of all study before you buy. You will save money and most of your questions will be answered. Some good starter books on nihonto (i.e authentic and traditionaly made japanese swords) are "The Japanese Sword: A Comprehensive Guide" by Kanzan Sato and "Samurai Sword: A Handbook"by John Yumoto.
The "Japanese steel" is called Tamahagane and swords custom made of this material are very expensive, mostly because they are valued as art objects. The japanese historicaly used and imported steel, but it was not so widespread. Such swords are not mass produced but made by qualified smiths one at a time.
Most modern production companies use modern steels (even when they call them tamahagane). A modern high carbom steel might outperform a traditionaly made with tamahagane japanese sword, but they have no art value. Mass production allows affordable prices.
Now that you have an idea of the compexity of the matter, you are ready to know that there is no such thing as "the best type of metal". A japanese sword is composed by a myriad of factors and steel is just one of them (others being like shape, balance, furniture, heat treatment etc).
I know the above might confuse you a bit (it's normal). That's why you need study. An easy answer would be this sword is low end and you should get this or that instead (my proposal would be a folded Hanwei/Dynasty Forge or RDS katana, prefferably from the classifieds here, but that would be MY point of view and some might disagree...)
|
|
George
Member
Banned
Posts: 1,899
|
Post by George on May 19, 2011 21:54:28 GMT
I agree with the 'Buy a cheap one first' I was just like you about 6 months ago (But i live in Aus haha) Anyway i brought a Musashi Bamboo www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Musashi-Bamboo.htmlU can get em from Sword N Armoury It only cost $80 BUT was exactly what i needed to 'learn' Now i have ordered a sword over 16 times its price... had i been able to do that first? NO WAY IN HELL! For a start i had no idea what I 'really' wanted... Like size, shape, colour etc.. The list goes on. I really recommend holding on to your money, learning as much as you can then when you feel comfortable to be able to answer all your questions yourself THEN buy the sword you want  OH i can really recommend this book, i read it and its very detailed at explaining who Japanese swords are made, with loads of pics: www.amazon.com/Craft-Japanese-Sword-Leon-Kapp/dp/087011798X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305842050&sr=8-1 |
|
George
Member
Banned
Posts: 1,899
|
Post by George on May 19, 2011 21:57:03 GMT
Oh appart form the Kill Bill sword being a movie replica, its no different, and id speculate not even as good as the Musashi Bamboo. Just triple the price  Anyone who has pictures of their swords displayed the wrong way up (Blade facing down) i wouldn't trust them as a knowledgeable seller... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 22:33:10 GMT
Thanks for all the help so far. I will definitely be looking at some books to read. Also, living in Canada will most likely be the hardest part of acquiring a sword of my choice. There are STRICT laws here that have to be tiptoed around to get my hands on such an item. I know its probably a long shot but any suggestions on local dealers?
This is what I am afraid of the most. If I decide to purchase a high quality sword, I don't want to be scammed by over paying for some cheap replica.
|
|
|
|
Post by chuckinohio on May 19, 2011 22:35:30 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Curgan on May 19, 2011 22:47:37 GMT
|
|
ecovolo
Senior Forumite
Retired Moderator
Posts: 2,074
|
Post by ecovolo on May 19, 2011 23:54:17 GMT
What's your budget? Knowing how much you're willing to pay can help narrow your field of choices.
--Edward
|
|
|
|
Post by Maynar on May 20, 2011 2:19:07 GMT
As far as I know, the only restrictions here are: if you commit a crime using a weapon, the charges will reflect that, and the penalties will be more severe. Plus you will lose your collection and your privilege of owning weapons. So, just don't do dumb things in public and you should be fine. I've been importing sharpies into Canada for over two years now, and have had no problems to date. If you collect and behave yourself, there shouldn't be any restrictions. Local dealers are all well and good, but the markups are ridiculous compared to what you can get from a US vendor like KoA. That's who I buy from these days. Even with shipping, the deal comes out better than anything you can buy off the shelf here in Canada. And customs has never bothered me, except to tack on a few dollars in duty, every once in a while. Mind you, I'm talking about Japanese-style swords manufactured in China, which are really quite good these days and priced far less than a genuine Japanese antique (nihonto). Which I wouldn't want to cut with, for fear of lessening its antique value. The Chinese swords are more than up to the task, generally speaking. Oh, and I'd just stay away from movie replicas if you want a practical sword, there's almost no such thing. For a peek at what I've acquired so far, feel free to ogle my collection: :lol: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2000They might not be your cuppa tea, but they make me happy. Good luck! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 4:49:13 GMT
Hey thanks for all the info. I have been looking through some of THESE and I am having trouble understanding the subtle differences. Also, what does folded mean? An earlier post mentioned how much I am looking to spend and I would say between 400-500$. I have no intentions on actually using a sword if I do indeed decided to purchase one. Again, thanks to everyone who replied so far. I can tell there is a lot of markup on local shops, but I am willing to pay the premium and not risk it being confiscated at the boarder. Some time ago I actually had an item confiscated at the boarder for over 2 years. Then a box mysteriously arrived at my door and I was confused as to what it was, since I wasn't expecting anything. Once I saw the shipping date as back in 08 it immediately clicked in my mind. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 7:51:46 GMT
If you purchase a sword from the US it will NOT be confiscated at the border. I'm a Canadian. I work in law enforcement and I've ordered a large number of swords from US dealers. Importing a sword is not illegal in Canada. Owning a sword is not illegal in Canada. Displaying a sword in your home is not illegal in Canada. Transporting a sword is not illegal in Canada. You are just not allowed to carry it in a public place. I even take my collection into Canadian high schools for historical presentations WITH the approval of the local RCMP. Compare prices and products very carefully. This community knows that Kult of Athena is among the best for international shipments and excellent prices. You will be charged a $5 customs handling fee at your door, along with local taxes. Sometimes, but not very often, customs officials will decide to evaluate an item and charge extra duty. Ship only via USPS. If you plan to spend $400 to $500 on your first sword, if I was you, I'd stick to reliable names like Dynasty Forge and Hanwei. Check out this link: www.kultofathena.com/swords-katana.asp |
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on May 20, 2011 7:53:04 GMT
Folded means that the blade was forged by folding a piece of hot steel and hammering it flat. This process is then repeated several times. This is the way katanas were traditionally forged to homogenize the carbon content of the steel and to reduce impurities and air pockets and such. The finished blade, with a proper final polish, will exhibit an interesting pattern on the surface. Others might chime in with more accurate explanations of this process. If you're looking for something that closely resembles a traditionally made Japanese sword, you should look into the Dynasty Forge folded Bushi. www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2670 It looks like Reliks price their items pretty close to the MSRP and Dynasty Forge swords cost about the same here in the U.S. and they have a good reputation for quality. You should find out which ones are available. The Hanwei katanas are good too. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 18:27:24 GMT
The item I purchased also matched this criteria, however it was still stopped / confiscated at the boarder.  I was looking through the swords on the site you listed, and I have came down to 2 choices I believe... First ChoiceSecond ChoiceI noticed that on the folded one, there is no "pattern" on the blade? I am not entirely sure what this is called. Also, I assume the folded one is of much better quality? |
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on May 20, 2011 19:00:48 GMT
There are Japanese terms describing various different types of folding patterns but the generic term for the visible grain on the surface is "hada". There is a pattern on the DF Bushi. It's just subtle, as it should be. Some of the cheaper folded blades tend to have very visible and garish hada.
With modern production katanas, a folded blade isn't necessarily better in terms of functionality. It's just more interesting looking and historically accurate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 19:06:46 GMT
These are both good quality swords. Of the two, you'd probably be happier with the Dynasty Forge for it's looks. The "pattern" is called the Hada. If you look carefully on the pictures, you can see it's there on the Dynasty Forge. It's just very subtle. The Hanwei doesn't have a Hada because it's a mono-steel blade. But don't ignore the one that Lobster Hunter pointed out either. Reliks is a good company (I've ordered from them before) when they can keep their prices in line. They've obviously done so with this sword. The "wave" Tsuba (guard) is a bit more plain than the two you picked out, but it's also quite traditional. Good choices though. I think you'd be happy with any of these.
(Oops: I just saw that Lobster Hunter beat me to the punch. You just got double the advice. What a deal!)
|
|
Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
|
Post by Sam H on May 20, 2011 19:08:10 GMT
Your first choice, the DF Bushi Folded, is folded however I would consider it more of a "pattern welded steel" blade than just a folded blade. The fact that it has multiple types of steel layered into the blade turns me off. Normally I consider DF a good product and for the most part I'm sure the sword will perform fine but don't be fooled by puffery such as this: There's no reason other than aesthetics to fold steel now and with the layering of different types of carbon content steel together you are actually detracting from the character integrity of the better steel (1095 will harden to a higher hardness than 1080,1080 will harden to a higher degree than 1060) so really you just get a 1095 steel sword that is less hard than a normal 1095 blade. A well made 1095 blade will be equally strong and definitely hold a sharper edge longer than this one. According to the description there SHOULD be a hamon however I would say its barely visible in the photos. If that pattern is what you're thinking of look closely at the hada - notice how it disappears near the edge of the blade and instead that has a pattern of its own. Very subtle - I'm actually not a fan of the polish either. I'd have to say from what I've seen this is not one of DF's better blades. Now about the Hanwei Golden Oriole - its a gorgeous sword aesthetically. I've seen and handled it myself and it feels light and agile. At the same time it lacks the blade presence that I prefer in a cutting sword so in my hands it felt more of a light cutter although I'm sure it could handle more than that. If you like a very light and agile sword this one feels good. It is not however folded. Personally I'd go with something else (especially if you want a folded blade) like a Hanwei Tori Elite but you're also talking about more money. Having never handled this particular DF blade I can only tell you what I see on KoA's site and also give you what I know about pattern welded steel. I have handled the Golden Oriole and I have given you my personal opinions about it. Here take a look at this - its a bit above your price range but well worth the money: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH6007KFE |
|
