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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 4:06:57 GMT
I have a TH katana and i would like to convert it to a DH katana. I've already chosen furnace cement (If i could find some in a hardware store...).
My question is: 1.) What colour should i wait for before pulling it out of the flame? 2.) Should i wait until the sword goes non-magnetic? (My katana is magnetic...) 3.) Why warm and not cold water?
Thanks.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Mar 20, 2008 6:59:17 GMT
While I haven't ever done a DH blade, the following applies to quenching as I know it. 1. a strong red, bordering on orange. It will go non magnetic at a good red tone (hard to see in sun, must be in shade), then I believe you want to go about 50F past non-mag. which would take you to a strong red. 2. Yup. 3. Cold can be too much of a shock and cause a fine edge to crack. Have the edges at anout 0.7mm thick. (Windlass edge). Have the oil at 40C / 110F. Good luck
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 8:03:20 GMT
Thanks Brenno. Forgot to add one more question.
4.) Should i normalize it first or go straight on to DHing it?
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Mar 20, 2008 8:15:04 GMT
I don't know whether it effect the final hardness or the spine if it is or isn't normalised? Normally you normalise if it has been through uneven heating processes, which your has not.
Dan / Sam / Slavia???
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 12:54:54 GMT
Well I don't have much knowledge about this but as I have done it recently I can tell you some at least but Sam Salvati should be able to tell you how to do it.
I did a total of tree(3) attempts, first time the sword was glowing red but I kinda knew it was to cold, but we didn't have the coal hot enough, but I quenched it anyway. Was not successful.
Second time we did not get it hot enough either so did not quench it but started the fire again and put it in when there was fire AND glow/coal. The sword was glowing orange-red then I quenched it, in water that was as cold as it gets. But maybe I was lucky as with cold water the chance of it snapping is greater than with warm water, but with cold water the edge will be harder than with hot water. After that I roasted the sword about one hour just beside the coal, then quenched in water again. I had my edge filed down to 1mm.
And then it's done hopefully, the edge will be super hard, I've spent around 12 hours so far with my whetstones.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 12:56:19 GMT
Oh and 4: I don't know if you should but I did, it made the steel a lot easier to work with before I hardened it, like getting down the edge to 1mm like I did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 13:57:09 GMT
i normalized my kat just now. Now its full of dark spots which i'm having a really hard time removing plus it bended... Though i made it straight, it's still slightly bending. Do i have to remove all the spot before applying clay or can i immediatly put it on?
sl4k, did you an electric fan or any blower to heat up your coals? I'm having a hard time making it extremely hot...
I forgot to add. P.S: I've normalized it twice. Only the second time did the kat bend
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Post by Dan Davis on Mar 20, 2008 14:12:04 GMT
You should anneal a previously hardened blade, straighten it, and then normalise at least 3 times before heat treating it a second time.
Steel has a crystalline "memory", no matter how many times you anneal, normalise and re-harden it. Be prepared for a sleepy hamon and make sure you anneal it thoroughly before proceeding.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2008 15:19:43 GMT
Xenomorph: I did not use coal, I used a lot of wood, let it burn so that there was coal glowing in the bottom of the fire, but still fire burning above. That way the fire itself will cause ventilation when it burns which makes the coal very hot.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Mar 20, 2008 23:13:00 GMT
Read some good books on blademaking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 2:39:59 GMT
Could anyone tell me the purposes of the ashi lines when applying clay?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 2:48:57 GMT
hey guys i know this is a kind of stupid question to ask but wont annealing it make the carbon content in it less? and wont heating it up in a forge (charcoal) put more carbon in it. sry i know it stupid but i never understood it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 12:59:13 GMT
The ashi lines will make softer lines of steel that will prevent the sword from curving to much. They sort of "counter" when the part that is clayed pulls it self together(sorry can't get the word I want to use).
The parts that are not clayed on the blade will freeze in it's position when the blade is quenched but the parts that are clayed will pull it self together.
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Post by Dan Davis on Mar 22, 2008 13:50:49 GMT
hey guys i know this is a kind of stupid question to ask but wont annealing it make the carbon content in it less? and wont heating it up in a forge (charcoal) put more carbon in it. sry i know it stupid but i never understood it. In both cases a small amount of carbon will migrate into the surface of the blade, assuming you are heating it in a charcoal or coal fired furnace. In both cases this will be less than a few microns and will be removed when the blade is polished. You need to leave steel in the fire for hours in order to see significant carbon migration (carburization), or heat it up almost to melting to see significant decarburization. Neither of which will occur during an annealing cycle.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Mar 23, 2008 0:42:49 GMT
The amount of carburisation/decarburisation that affects the SURFACE of the steel will vary according to how deep the steel is placed in the fire. Coal fires are layered into the carburising layer, further away from the air blast, and the decarburising layer, closer to the air blast. Between the two is the area best for heating the steel, where the fire is hot enough to heat the steel as much as you need, but has insufficient free oxygen for the surface of the steel to decarburise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 2:50:46 GMT
Okay. Last question before i go quench. Can standard cement (Cement used to build buildings) be used for claying?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 2:54:05 GMT
It COULD, ANYTHING could, but it would probably suck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 3:37:14 GMT
That's a little discouraging... A sucky hamon (sulking at a corner)... I'd give you a karma but instead i'll give you a thanks. Thanks!!
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