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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 14, 2008 21:57:04 GMT
I've got a blade made by Windlass that I bought several years ago which is more than a little whippy. If I hold it out so the flat of the blade is parallel to the ground it will actually sag under its own weight. I am thinking about trying to re-temper it to get it to a reasonable stiffness. I couldn't find anything with the "search" but figure that surely someone must have tried this before.
Anyone? If so, did it work? Any pointers, I'm a novice at this.
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Post by themaster293 on Mar 14, 2008 22:18:04 GMT
Ask Brenno.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 22:35:47 GMT
Wippiness isn't really so much from the heat treat as the geometry and shape of the blade, long and thin makes for wippy blades of any shape. You would have to re harden then retemper to get it a bit more rigid.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 14, 2008 22:49:10 GMT
Thanks Master293, pm sent to Brenno.
Sam, perhaps I should grind in a bit more distal taper to take the weight off the end and then re-harden and re-temper?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 0:11:27 GMT
If you keep it cool enough no need to reharden and temper, but yes grinding a bit of the tip might make it less wippy, but be careful as the current heat treat might not allow the blade to be much thinner and still retain strength. Do you have access to the proper equipment for re heat treating?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 15, 2008 0:54:07 GMT
I recently built myself an electric heat treat kiln. It stands vertically so the blades hang straight down from the top. It has a pyrometer built into it and is in two stacked sections (I use the lower one by itself for small blades and can add the upper section to do swords.) I got an old 100lb propane tank, cut the top off to use as a lid (added a handle) and filled it with ATF to quench. So I don't know if I'd go so far as to say the "proper equipment", maybe just "equipment".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 1:42:14 GMT
That is good enough, thought you were working with a grill and a puddle LOL. Get your blade all ground, don't worry about the HT because you are going to re do it. Grind it to it's new shape,, normalise it by heating it up in the oven to 1500F and then just shut the oven off and let it cool overnight inside, then harden by soaking in the oven at 1500F for about 10 minutes, then quench vertically into the ATF warmed to 110F, then temper at 450F for an hour, cool it down to the touch, then temper again at 450F or 475F, you should get good results. Dull the edge before heat treat too, not too much about the thickness of a quarter. Write down your results and process used in a notebook so you can adjust as needed.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Mar 15, 2008 4:49:27 GMT
I don't think you could make it much stiffer. What Sam is saying would make it lighter which would help with the droop and flopping, but not help thrusting at all. Tempering at 450 is pretty cool so it would possibly make it harder / stiffer? Check out the photos of what happened to my Windlass made Narnia sword when I had it re-heat-treated and tempered. I've never seen this in any other sword. It must be some funky alloy or something. On the following pic: Above - normal blackening and scaling. Below - instant antique. The following pics are after I had sanded it back a bit. Here you can really see the crazy pitting that ocurred. Wierd hey?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 15, 2008 15:50:04 GMT
Thanks for the info Sam and Brenno! Sam, I'll do as you suggest. I don't yet have anything set up to heat my quench tank, will it matter that the ATF is at around 75-80F rather than 110F? Also, my oven takes about 4 hours to get up to 1500, is it better to put the blade in at the beginning and let it heat up slowly or put it in toward the end and heat it quickly? Ew, Brenno that is weird looking. I wonder if it has anything to do with the coating that comes on the windlass blades, maybe it got into tiny pores in the metal and contaminated it during the hardening? I thought windlass used plain high carbon steel and not any funky alloys. That's certainly not the look I'm going for but if that is the trade-off for a stiffer blade it would still be worth it. My windlass blade is totally useless as it is now. karma for you guys
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2008 16:35:57 GMT
If you have a forge, heat up some regular bars of steel and dunk into your ATF, that will warm it up a bit. Put your sword in when the oven reaches 1450F then let it come up to temperature, too long a soak inside might make the decarburisation a problem if your oven is not airtight. BE VERY CAREFUL of any nasty vapors that might come from the crappy coating on the blade as it is heated up, might be quite hazardous to your health use an open window and plenty of ventilation, fans and stuff.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 15, 2008 19:16:37 GMT
Will do Sam. Thanks. I'll post the results when it's done.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2008 0:53:52 GMT
Please do, should be interesting.
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