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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2008 23:33:11 GMT
Sorry for hijacking the thread some but I just had a word with my father and he has a 30-40kilogram anvil at our cousins house that we will get soon!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2008 0:25:12 GMT
If it's not to mutch to ask, if anyone that is making stock removal swords would do a proper walk trough on how the process is done I would be really happy, I have read some on the inet after hearing this from you guys but I haven't found a good one yet. You must not have looked very far, as there is one right in the stickied topics in this forum.
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Post by rammstein on Feb 23, 2008 0:50:01 GMT
Hey Sl4k.
/index.cgi?board=swordmaking&action=display&thread=1191051844
This is the guide I believe Sam is referring to.
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 23, 2008 3:43:27 GMT
I happen to agree with Sam on this subject, and FWIW Jim Hrisoulas was referring to a very specific steel type when he recommended forging at cherry red to dull orange. And for that steel he is absolutely correct. The steel Brenno is using forges quite nicely at yellow heat.
Grain growth IS a problem, but only if the smith does nothing to correct it. As Sam said, a single, simple normalisation cycle is all it takes in most cases.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2008 3:50:34 GMT
I happen to agree with Sam on this subject, and FWIW Jim Hrisoulas was referring to a very specific steel type when he recommended forging at cherry red to dull orange. And for that steel he is absolutely correct. The steel Brenno is using forges quite nicely at yellow heat. Grain growth IS a problem, but only if the smith does nothing to correct it. As Sam said, a single, simple normalisation cycle is all it takes in most cases. *high five
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Feb 23, 2008 5:42:40 GMT
Group hug for the forgers.
But it is good to know that I can go hotter, I just get sick of waiting for it to heat up. I'll get a smaller hammer and try it. The fact that I am using a weight training 5kg plate for an anvil is probably not ideal either...
Don't worry guys, I won't give up, I'm just getting started.
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Post by salvatore on Feb 23, 2008 5:59:49 GMT
It is pretty nice. I have not forged anything yet, but I intend to make it all the way to a fully functional katana! *ahem* Anyway, it is great that you have decided to forge something, you will probably become hopelessly addicted
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 23, 2008 11:58:29 GMT
<deletia> The fact that I am using a weight training 5kg plate for an anvil is probably not ideal either...<deletia> No help at all; the anvil and hammer are an energy conservation/energy return system. It's kind of like tossing a marble at a bowling ball, the bowling ball doesn't even move but the marble bounces right back to you. If you use a big enough anvil and mount it on a solid base then all (99%, anyway) of your energy is either expended on the steel or returned to you as the hammer rebounds. No wonder you are wearing out so fast. Ideally you want the hammer to fall, the steel to go smoosh, and the hammer to stop on the anvil. But that never happens. So you want the anvil to rebound for you. Also, the smith expends energy to LIFT the hammer. The hammer does work by falling and the smith should simply guide it to the anvil face. That way you CAN use a heavier hammer, because all you are doing is guiding it as it falls. And with a proper anvil you get most of your energy back from the stroke. I forge with a 6 pound and a 4 pound hammer and can swing them all day. Of course, not all smiths agree with me - Uri Hofer is a huge fan of "swing as hard as you possibly can" but he is young yet. I'll bet he changes his mind when he gets old and decrepit like me .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2008 13:04:21 GMT
Thanks Sam and rammstein!
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Feb 23, 2008 21:17:18 GMT
Cheers Dan. I must have not read that chapter closely enough, as I thought he was on about carbon steel generally! I'll re-read it.
On the course I attended I used a 2 and a half pound hammer as provided, and didnt get tired at all. A good start, I hope.
Hey Bren, go down to your local train station, and look for a technician or engineer who can direct you to a scrap pile with some railroad track sections on it. With your angle grinding skills, you should have no problem turning a piece of RR track into a nice anvil. You might have to heat treat it though.
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 23, 2008 23:52:18 GMT
Well yeah, at one point he mentions that he is using O-1 and then forever more he just calls it high-carbon. O-1 is hot-short; if you work it too hot it crumbles. He's still being a bit of a wimp working at cherry red though as even O-1 will go hotter. I guess you can do that if you have a trip hammer
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Feb 24, 2008 18:08:53 GMT
What is your opinion of this Austenite forging business he mentions? It looks a lot like a contradiction to me, since at one stage he explicitely states that the steel should not be forged below critical, yet here he says that to perform this technique, the steel must be worked "below critical, between its hardening temperature, and the blue-brittle range". So you can't work the steel below critical, but you can really. I don't get it.
He argues this in the name of avoiding the grain growth that higher temperature heats would cause, but if grain growth isnt really that much of a problem, as Sam argues, then why bother?
I'm not sold.
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 25, 2008 2:28:10 GMT
Matt, It comes down to this- everyone does things his or her own way and most folks think theirs is the only way.
On the face of it his statements seem wrong to me. For instance, austenite only forms when steel moves above the initial phase transformation temperature (A1 or 'critical') so how can you forge below critical and still forge in an austenitic state? Simple metallurgical answer: you can't.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Feb 25, 2008 12:25:30 GMT
Your answer certainly seems the more logical one to me.
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