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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 22, 2008 3:06:40 GMT
Sam, why do you feel the need to: a. Call rammstein a butthead. b. Say he is acting like a "little baby" and shall be treated as such. c. Blame him for your imposition of rules. - Own what you do, don't blame someone else. d. Edit other people posts.
Thats very disrespectful. There are people of all levels of education, cultures, languages, ages, etc all trying to contribute here. Sensoring them is not in the spirit of this forum, toted as the "friendliest forum on the net".
Then locking that thread off so no-one can comment on your behavior. Sam, I know you can do this job coz your the most involved forum member with the qualifications to observe what's said here. I'm sure this is just a teething issue.
A gentle nudge in the right direction is the done way of guiding the forumites. This is a sanctuary for all the amateur sword makers and collectors, where a lack of understanding and casual atmosphere is the norm.
Consider this my gentle nudge.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 22, 2008 3:16:33 GMT
I'm with Brenno on this one. I'm not sure what's been going on, but I'm gaining a sense of some extreme immaturity coming from somebody who's supposed to be a mod. Seriously, rammsteinisabutthead.com? And deleting posts without mentions as to why? There's something wrong here.
I'd thought better of you, Sam. I hope you can explain this behavior.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 22, 2008 4:31:43 GMT
Why lock this thread? It is a good way to demonstrate our civility while trying to get to the bottom of a situation, and possibly make a change for the better? Democracy in action, if you will.
Personally I really like Sam, and the way he generally does things. But that said, I am a serious (though amateur) bladesmith, therefore Sam's peer. It is always easier to relate to and communicate effectively with one's peers.
The way that one relates with those much less knowledgeable, interested, experienced, or mature than himself is where a person's true character is truly revealed.
As an active participant of the Sword Making Discussion, this is all I have to say.
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Post by themaster293 on Jan 22, 2008 4:38:43 GMT
Now that I think of it, he has erased a couple of my comments!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 5:07:47 GMT
Sam, why do you feel the need to: a. Call rammstein a butthead. b. Say he is acting like a "little baby" and shall be treated as such. c. Blame him for your imposition of rules. - Own what you do, don't blame someone else. d. Edit other people posts. Thats very disrespectful. There are people of all levels of education, cultures, languages, ages, etc all trying to contribute here. Sensoring them is not in the spirit of this forum, toted as the "friendliest forum on the net". Then locking that thread off so no-one can comment on your behavior. Sam, I know you can do this job coz your the most involved forum member with the qualifications to observe what's said here. I'm sure this is just a teething issue. A gentle nudge in the right direction is the done way of guiding the forumites. This is a sanctuary for all the amateur sword makers and collectors, where a lack of understanding and casual atmosphere is the norm. Consider this my gentle nudge. Hey now take it easy, I am new at this moderator thing. You missed that rammstein had openly stated originally before I edited his post and replaced the link, acting very immature "I'll post whatever link I want" and posted the link to livesteelarmor, I guess as some sort of joke. Don't worry bren, I am learning a bit more about this, and getting used to it. Besides, it is not like I am descending with an SFI style iron fist, just trying to make the interaction here a bit more focused, not ENTIRELY ALL ABOUT STRICTLY SWORDMAKING AND DELETING EVERYTHING ELSE, just a bit more organised than it was before. A soft touch is indeed in order, so no more deleting posts willy nilly(I never edited any except one) I'll just suggest in a post before doing anything like that anymore, to give a chance to correct before any action is taken. Gentle nudge taken.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 22, 2008 5:14:27 GMT
+1 Karma to Sam for taking the issue seriously, and promptly making it right again.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 22, 2008 5:15:23 GMT
Yeah, I know, you're a smart guy, and you'll be right at this. Rammstein can choose to be a bit antagonistic, but you just learn to ignore him. He likes to bait, and to take bait. But we have plenty of room for that here I'm sure, we all have our nuances.
+1 for adapting and taking the crit graciously.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 5:25:47 GMT
Yeah, I know, you're a smart guy, and you'll be right at this. Rammstein can choose to be a bit antagonistic, but you just learn to ignore him. He likes to bait, and to take bait. But we have plenty of room for that here I'm sure, we all have our nuances. +1 for adapting and taking the crit graciously. Yeah, I am not one for letting a jerk continue on they're jerk-path, someon wants to get smart then they better be careful, I am a nice understanding guy until somone asks for it. I don't like to be like that i am all about taking it easy and cool and mellow. OH YES, there is plenty of room for all that kind of spuckduggery, just keep it NICE AND FRIENDLY instead of antagonising and ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 6:04:52 GMT
Moderating has a learning curve like most other things. Moderation was not needed up until now, but with the number of members at SBG approaching 1,000, we will be needing moderating services more and more as the forum grows.
Forget about what has happened recently, looking forward there will likely be other cases where people get out of line. There is nothing wrong with disagreement. It makes for healthy discussion. You can argue the sky is green if you like and the rest of us can laugh and make out own arguments. We should not tolerate being insulting or disrespectful to other people. That is where moderation comes in.
I think the best approuch to moderation is first, private messaging. Explain to the person what is permissible and what is not, in a PM so he is not embarrassed. Get him to understand proper etiquette and to edit his own post. Send a PM to any people who may have been insulted and ask you to please let you deal with the problem rather then retaliate themselves. If the offending person is not cooperating at that point then you can block out any offensive comments (xxxxxxxx) and ban them if the behavior continues.
One of the keys to child-management is that you never come down to their level. When children start a tantrum and throw stuff on the floor it makes no sense for the parents to respond by throwing more stuff on the floor. Likewise, if someone is being disrespectful it is not a good idea to be disrespectful in return. It only sets a bad example.
I am very opposed to closing threads because one or two people got out of line. It robs the rest of us of what may be a good discussion. Threads will also drift off in different directions from time to time. I don't think that is such a bad thing. If their are too many discussions going on at once, people will open up other threads. If it is the only active topic being discussed, then its not a problem even if is off-topic.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jan 22, 2008 13:53:50 GMT
Wow. There's been a full on war since I last visited.
If someone posts something silly, its best just to completely ignore them. Especially if they are being particularly argumentative. They usually get bored and stop trying.
Every fire needs fuel to burn.
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Post by Dan Davis on Jan 22, 2008 14:12:16 GMT
Why lock this thread? It is a good way to demonstrate our civility while trying to get to the bottom of a situation, and possibly make a change for the better? Democracy in action, if you will.
<<<deletia>>>
As an active participant of the Sword Making Discussion, this is all I have to say. Democracy? This is not a democracy. This is Paul's house. He makes the rules and chooses whomever he pleases to enforce those rules. He also decides who can or cannot be in his house. All the rest of us need to think of ourselves as just that: houseguests in another person's home. As an active participant of the Sword Making Discussion, this is all I have to say.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 15:32:08 GMT
i think dan makes a good point; this is not our forum to do with as we please, it is pauls. paul chose sam to moderate this forum, and personally i feel this was a good deciscion, as sam is a very knowledgable cat. furthermore, i've on two seperate occasions had the good fortune to visit sam at his shop, where he was an extremely kind and generous host. he let me and a buddy, whom he did not know then, use his tools, his stock, and tap his knowledge. i've gone back since, and definately look forward to going again. that's what this forum is really all about; open share of information. if sam is trying to stop the spreading of misinformation, or links to sights with misinformation, i absolutely support him 110%. remember, it can be very easy to be critical on the net. you are dealing with people you've never met face-to-face for the most part, and it takes alot of the pressure of yourself to moderate yourself. however, i have met sam face to face, and i for one completely support his judgement calls. and if that's not good enough for you, then i'll leave you all this pic of sam as a warning
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 15:53:44 GMT
Holy S#!T it looks like something straight out of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
I'm gonna have nightmares now, you sick man....
BTW, Rancid is a pretty good band. Love Matt Freeman's Bass lines.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jan 22, 2008 17:32:38 GMT
I read some thing about ramm geting called a "butthead" what did I miss
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 22, 2008 18:16:12 GMT
why don't you use the "Search" function and find out for yourself, ok?
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jan 22, 2008 18:29:25 GMT
I don't know the name of the thread or I WOULD!!!!!
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Post by rammstein on Jan 22, 2008 19:59:22 GMT
With all due respect, I personally feel YOU were the one being a jerk prohibiting the link to a certain thread simply for the reason that you felt it was wrong.
Hence my comment was posted. Call me a jerk, but I'll return the insult just as easily.
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Post by septofclansinclair on Jan 22, 2008 20:38:39 GMT
Alright guys, this is being looked into by Paul and myself, so let's not have any more shots fired over this. Resolution is coming but will take time, ya?
The more people come together in a forum like this, the more opportunities there are for misunderstanding, and for interpersonal issues. One negative aspect of the internet is that miscommunication is extremely common, and leads to flame wars and all sorts of things. No one wants this forum to devolve into what others can, so the best thing to do is to work together for speedy and calm resolutions. As Dan (well, other Dan) says this is Paul's house, and we need to try to play by the rules (myself and the other mods included).
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jan 22, 2008 20:44:59 GMT
Ive found lots of lee-way on this forum
ramm if any one is going to get yelled at or (gods forbid) banned it will be you or I since we've made our selves pests on more than one thread so stop whinning before you get us BOTH thrown out
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 22, 2008 22:59:36 GMT
Why lock this thread? It is a good way to demonstrate our civility while trying to get to the bottom of a situation, and possibly make a change for the better? Democracy in action, if you will.
<<<deletia>>>
As an active participant of the Sword Making Discussion, this is all I have to say. Democracy? This is not a democracy. This is Paul's house. He makes the rules and chooses whomever he pleases to enforce those rules. He also decides who can or cannot be in his house. All the rest of us need to think of ourselves as just that: houseguests in another person's home. As an active participant of the Sword Making Discussion, this is all I have to say. Dan, either you misunderstood my analogy or your high sense of principle is clouding your common sense. I am sure it must be the former, so let me clarify: In my personal experience with Paul, he wants feedback from his "guests" as to how to make his house more comfortable and accomodating to all. He has always heeded the communal advice, wishes, and general voice of his "guests," without whom he would not have a house, but rather an empty garage. Many changes have been made/denied by Paul, based on his knowledge of a general consensus by forum members, having voiced their opinions on the matter. An effective way to culminate this voice is through a public forum, which is exactly how the first democracies cultivated ideas for change that were later acted upon through voting and the actions of leadership. Kinda coincidental that Paul's house is, itself, called a Forum, huh? No, it is not a coincidence at all. Which is why I had suggested keeping this particular thread of the forum open. So that we can be part of a... ...Democracy in action, if you will! Furthermore: "If you will" does not mean "literally and to all true extents of a concept." It implies a loose analogy with strong and inherent connections, not congruency. I intentionally and mindfully included that particular subphrase in my original post for this reason. Understand my reasoning now? I hope I have made myself more clear.
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