Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 14:26:26 GMT
Hope I do not aggrevate you in asking this, but I have done a search in several of the making type posts, and do not come up with a definate answer. Could maybe 2 or 3 of you guys get together and come up with a basic chart on steels, and list them according to thier usefulness in building a sword. I hear so many things when buying and considering making my own. example
1045-qualities 1050-qualites 1055-qualities etc.... Or point me in the right direction if I have missed this information on my searches. I would be willing to help if I can. I think this would be useful in this catergory and maybe Paul would make it stick. In other words, if I could have a rating system on the steels, it would help me to choose what my first projects would be from. Also, if I can buy(for example) say a 5160 TH steel blade for 35 dollars more than a 1060 TH, is it worth the money? Or are thier other sites out there that list this info? if so, I would be willing to transfer the info to our site, as I think it would be benficial to all members.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Davis on Nov 5, 2007 23:31:10 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 0:05:39 GMT
Dan: that tells us about knives but swords are a different kettle of fish. Out of curiousity what are the best knives in your opinion? I was looking at a kabar made out of D-2 a while back but i have found all sorts of interesting knives made out of 1095 and whatnot, for a combat knife which needs to be able to take high impact and high stress applications but still be able to cut and saw what would you recommend and in what steel?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 6:30:54 GMT
ity's not about the steel, it is about the smith. ANY smith can use ANY steel, but they usually choose one or two and learn the ins and outs of that steel. PICK A STEEL, then learn to use and treat it properly it is all personal preference. No such rating system exists nor can exist, purely personal opinion and personal skill. For a beginner like yourself, stick with a simple hard to screw up steel like 5160(in oil only) or 1045 in water. Temper after hardening at 400F for atleast one hour or two.
|
|
slav
Member
Senior Forumite
Katsujin No Ken
Posts: 4,457
|
Post by slav on Nov 6, 2007 7:23:38 GMT
That's kind of like asking us to rate all the different firearm calibers.
Yes, certain types of caliber have a certain rage of uses...but it mainly involves trying a few out, and deciding on your personal preferences regarding characteristics. Same thing with steel.
I, myself started out [wisely or unwisely] using 1095, and continue to do so because I am used to working with it, and can handle it pretty well. That's really the only steel I have experience working with for blades [so far.]
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 8:02:47 GMT
Certain steels have certain properties that make them good or bad for making swords out of don't they? I mean there has to be a reason certain steels are used more often then not and i have run into a few steels i have never heard of before as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 11:59:20 GMT
from what I can see Blood, the same steel can be called different things in different countries.In Aus its all but impossible to find a supplier of 10** series steels.Theres 1040/1050 but anything higher in carbon is impossible to find.However some of the local guys are finding equivilents called by different names. Weird, we supply a LOT of steel to the world but we cant buy the dam stuff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 13:06:44 GMT
Okay, I am not being clear here. I will try my own stuff on a TAE basis.
All things being equal, I am asking you guys with experience more for my sword buying edification. Lets suppose that a supplier has integrity, and has a general good reputation. We are also trying to talk about sub 300 swords. As a general(all things being equal in the process) rule, what is your starting point for katanas. Would you guys even consider 1045? and up to what?1095? I have the PC banshee, and I think it is 1070 to 1095. It is really rigid thought. Would you ever be inclined to buy a katana made from 1095? Or is it generally too hard? I own a TH 1060 that is tough as nails. But if I can get a 5160 for 100 dollars more, am I generally getting a better buy? As far as durability. Not really looking for aesthetics at this point. More for durabiltiy and ability to be tough, yet remain reasonably able to weild. I am not making any sense, am I?
|
|
|
Post by Dan Davis on Nov 6, 2007 13:23:46 GMT
Ok, Now I understand. The answer to your question (although not the answer you want) is: who gives a rat's ass?
Sam is absolutely right. The steel runs a poor second to the man who forges it. I can make a katana out of 1050 monosteel that will cut most production blades in two (if you use a big enough hammer), holds an edge better and longer than ANY production blade I have ever encountered, and makes my polisher semprini like a little girl about having to work with it. Whenever I use a different steel I use different methods and techniques so that I end up with the absolute SAME result as I do using 1050. So, the only real reason I use different steels to make katana is because they look different when I am through with them and they are different kinds of pretty.
Properties of steel are the same for swords as they are for knives. The steel doesn't change when you make something different from it.
Your 1060 may be inferior to the 5160, or it may be vastly superior. The material it is made of does not really dictate what the weapon IS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 13:24:30 GMT
Ronin: if you are looking for sword steel in australia try looking XK2985S i think it is called, it's used by manning imperial and they are quite well renowned, the guys backlog is like 16 month wait for him to even start anything new.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 13:52:44 GMT
Cool. so I should be looking more for process than steel. I am going to have to go higher than the sub 300 then, because chances are, most of the retails are probably buying roughly the same blades when it come to most of the chinese forged stuff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2007 14:17:01 GMT
So we should all buy from you Dan? Are the different steels cheaper or more expensive to purchase? So is a 1045 cheaper to purchase not as a sword but as bar steel? Also if all those steels work the same can you tell what the hype is surrounding L6 and bainite?
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 6, 2007 15:04:33 GMT
Ronin: if you are looking for sword steel in australia try looking XK2985S i think it is called, it's used by manning imperial and they are quite well renowned, the guys backlog is like 16 month wait for him to even start anything new. Manning does nice work, almost exclusively custom I believe. The leaf spring steel I get from Westcoast suspension for my swords is actually XK9258S, which is probably what you are referring to. It wouldn't surprise me with Manning sourcing from an Aussie supplier. Dan commented: This is actually the same steel as Japan Industrial Standard Sup 7/AISI 9260 Component | Wt. % | C | 0.56 - 0.64 | Fe | 96 | Mn | 0.88 | P | Max 0.035 | S | Max 0.04 | Si | 2 |
I will look up heat treatment specs and get back to you.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Davis on Nov 7, 2007 0:29:34 GMT
So we should all buy from you Dan?
Are the different steels cheaper or more expensive to purchase? So is a 1045 cheaper to purchase not as a sword but as bar steel?
Also if all those steels work the same can you tell what the hype is surrounding L6 and bainite? Buy what you want. Just be aware that quoting "this steel.." or "that steel..." is simply marketing hype. Just like "Ooooh.... Rockwall 62" is a load of hooey. Steels pretty much cost the same within classes, allowing for minor variations depending upon supply when you order. Bainite conversion is a metallurgical process; this is heat treatment which is one of those "skill of the smith" things. Creating a martensitic edge on a bainite body is NOT trivial. The L6 thing is just a bunch of hype. Howard Clark chose to work with L6 when he pioneered the Bainite/Martensite process; he states that he chose it for it's forging characteristics and metallurgical content and that he prefers to use it. Howard has made Bainite/Martensite blades from other materials (his 1086M comes to mind immediately) and I have also done so using a slightly different process and 1050. In fact, with my methodologies L6 is not that great. Once again, the process is poorly understood and so the steel (L6) is being hyped as an all-important factor when in fact almost any midrange high carbon steel will do nicely. I say again: who gives a rat's ass about L6? It's the process that matters.
|
|
slav
Member
Senior Forumite
Katsujin No Ken
Posts: 4,457
|
Post by slav on Nov 7, 2007 4:47:53 GMT
Stick high-carbon steels, of course. 1018 or A36 is not gonna cut it.
Lots of good choices within the realm of HC steels.
|
|
|
Post by chakobsa on Nov 7, 2007 21:16:42 GMT
Dan, thanks for the great info. Your guide to steel types is great and The Engnath site is a goldmine of fascinating information. +1.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2007 23:48:20 GMT
Yes thanks for all replies. You have hopefully kept a fool and his money from parting(in some cases)
|
|
|
Post by Dan Davis on Nov 8, 2007 12:56:19 GMT
Never mistake ignorance for foolishness; even though they often appear the same.
|
|
|
Post by Matt993f.o.d on Nov 8, 2007 14:08:48 GMT
Alas. The production sword market does its best to sell its products, and hype is a good way of doing this.
|
|