Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Mar 21, 2011 13:03:37 GMT
Ok so I've decided that now would probably be a good time to start reloading. Not only for economics but also for performance.
Thus far I've decided ONLY to reload .308 WIN and .45ACP. At this point 7.62x39 and 5.56NATO can be purchased inexpensively enough that its not economically advantageous to reload them. Not only that but performance with factory loads is acceptable for me in rifles that are fed said ammo.
I've done the math and while it is only a little more economical it still is more economical to load my own .308 and .45. Aside from that I'd like to try my hand at tweaking said ammo for better performance out of my firearms.
That said I've got a few questions for those of you who reload regarding those calibers and loading them.
1. My LR-308 has shown it prefers heavier bullets (180gr vs 147gr, 150gr) while my only other .308, a Rem 700 BDL will shoot reliably any weight bullet I put through it. I've got some ideas as to what I can load for the Rem 700. What I'd like to ask is - would it be inadvisable to load a 200+gr bullet for the LR-308? If its not dangerous to the firearm and thus dangerous to the shooter to do that what type of load would you suggest? I'd heard of 200+gr bullets being loaded in 30-06 and 300 Win Mags shooting upwards of 3000+fps but I haven't been able to find info on 200+gr bullets loaded for .308.
2. Regarding .308 loads - what's your favorite load and why? If you're a competition shooter or just protective of your loading secrets I understand and wouldn't expect you to divulge your loads. If you're not opposed to it I'd like to know, more as a reference since I'm a total newbie to loading.
3. When it comes to .45ACP - simply put, what is your favorite load and why? (same caveat as for question 2.)
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 21, 2011 14:28:04 GMT
I'm not an expert, so I tend to follow what the experts advise. My Hornady manual has a section "M1A/Service Rifle". So I would recommend starting with one of the excellent reloading guides from Hornady, Speer or Nosler. My preferences for .308/7.62mm: =medium rate burning powders: IMR4064 and AA2520; I use AA2520, a ball powder, almost exclusively now for 308 because it's easy to throw. (It was recommended to me by Phil Arrington who tuned my match M1A. Checkout his "Tips&Hints" link for pet loads.) However, a relatively new powder VARGET, as part of the Hodgdon "Extreme" line, is remarkably insensitive to heat extremes. I would consider it over IMR4064, if I were starting afresh today. =bullets: I use Hornady 168gr BTHP. It's what my bullet vendor had, when I ran out of Speer 168gr Match. I have chosen the 165gr-168gr bullet weight so I could use the same ballistic tables (with small variations). I have a Nosler 165gr Ballistic Tip load for hunting, when and if. I developed the following load for a Win70 HBV bolt gun: =Winchester Brass =CCI Large Rifle Match Primer =Hornady 168gr BTHP Match Bullet =43.0 grains AA2520 I chrono 2691fps through its 26" barrel. I started conservatively and slowly increased the charge weight until I found the sweet spot for this rifle. No bolt sticking, no flattened primers nor other signs of overpressure. It shoots very well and has a small standard deviation (8.34) in velocity. Caution: Hornady recommends at most 41.0 grains of AA2520 for an M1A Service Rifle.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 21, 2011 14:54:39 GMT
Regarding 200 grain bullets in 308: You quickly run out of case capacity with the longer/heavier bullets.
The 30-06 can shine with heavier bullets because it has more case capacity and the reloader can use a slower powder to ramp up to acceptable velocity. Slower powders are not recommended in gas guns because of the damage they can do to the gas system: pressures are high when the bullet passes the gas port.
Of course, your 308 AR does not have an op rod. But I bet the gas port is tuned for a medium rate powder.
I would use nothing heavier than 175gr Match and safely stick with a medium rate powder.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Mar 21, 2011 15:02:05 GMT
Thanks for that bit of info Larry. I'm new to the world of reloading so you're far closer to an expert than I am. I'd done some research and had heard about Varget... thinking I might try that stuff for powder.
Aside from that I'd normally hunted with a 168gr SP factory load Federal Power-Shok ammo for my .308 bolt gun. It regularly prints 1" 5 shots at 100yds off a bench so that's fine for hunting but even at the low prices for Federal Power-Shok I've figured it out that in the long run its less expensive to reload. That's when I decided since I'm going to reload I might as well see what others are shooting and tweak my loads to get maximum accuracy and effectiveness out of the rifle.
I'll keep your recommendation in mind for my bolt gun. As for the autoloader - I find that the Federal Power-Shok 180gr SP gives me 1" 5 shot groups at 100yds. The barrel isn't broken in quite yet but its pretty accurate with that thus far. If I shoot the 168gr Power-Shok for some reason the grouping spreads to about 1.5" to 2" at 100 yds. With the scope zeroed at 100yds I can reliably print 2" 5 shot groups at 225yds (longest shot I can take at the range I go to) with the 180gr. The 168gr. spreads out to almost 3.5". My only ideas are that either the gun likes heavier ammo more than lighter ammo OR since the barrel isn't fully broken in yet its too early to tell what the gun likes.
I can say though that some research has come up with many owners of the DPMS LR-308 stating that their rifles prefer 180gr+ bullets over lighter ones for max accuracy. Now then 3.5" at 225yds is still pretty darned good in my mind - good enough to take deer at that distance so I'm not too concerned about it but hey if I can push it to where I'm printing 1" at 225yds I'd love to do that.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 21, 2011 15:29:58 GMT
I load .308, but not much. So I don't have much in the way of advise that hasn't already been offered up. But I have loaded A LOT of .45 ACP over the years. Powders that work well for standard velocity loads are Unique, Bullseye, and WW321. But my current favorite for all auto-pistol ammo is Hodgdon Tite-Group. It is very flexible and seems to work well for .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm Luger, .38 Special, .44 SPecial, and .45 Colt. Another benefit to Tite-Group is that Hodgdon puts load data on the can/jug. I have found their load data to be spot-on for all the above mentioned loads. Also, the HUGE benefit of reloading .45 ACP is the option to use hard cast bullets. I use a lot of bullets from The Bulletworks with great success. The price of cast bullets for the .45, including shipping, knock a substantial chunk off the price of loaded ammo. I use their 225 gr TCFP and the load data for a 230 gr cast bullet. It's extremely accurate and reliable. Priced at $75 plus a low shipping rate, these allow for a lot more shooting with the same money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 15:39:37 GMT
Hey, I should state that I don't have much experience reloading, I'm just trying to get into it aswell, but from what I've been reading I can offer some advise. From what I've read with the heavier bullets RL-17 is the "go to" powder for the .308 Win. Bullet choice is some what personal pref and more dependent on what your going to be doing. If your going to be punching paper at 100-600yds then the Berger or Siera 168gr or 175gr is perfect. Now if your looking to push the round to it's max potential as far as range goes then you want something above 200gr with the higest BC possable, which in a 308 IMO the best choice is either the Amax 208gr or the 210gr Berger, the 220s are a bit much. If your looking to take game with, then I would recomend the Hornady Amax or Nosler Partitions in an approperate weight. Hornady offers the Amax in a 208gr and it is the long range hunting bullet, alot of compition guys are shooting these cause of their very high BC. That said I've read they very in weight more that the Sierras or the Bergers, which means less accurite, but probably neglible to most shooters. I have a .300wm that I'm going to be loading for and I chose three bullets to load into it, the 208 Amax as my long range paper/critter round, a 125 Nosler Ballistic tip for my coyote round and the Hornady 155 soft point as my mid range hunting/plinking round, cause the do the job and their cheap. I'm also going to reload for my .45acp but I haven't done much research on that one yet. Depending on what you want to be able to do with your rifle depends on how indepth you need to get into reloading but I'd recommend going over to one of the gun forums (Snipershide, snipercentral, 6mmbr.com, etc.) and ask questions and doing alot of reading of old posts, I know I learned alot there.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 21, 2011 15:54:32 GMT
SamH,
Are you single loading? Trying the best you can to not deform the soft point or meplat of the bullet?
If you are set up to reload, feel free to experiment with 168gr and 178gr AMAX (which may not deform as easily). The 1:10 of your bore is faster than my 1:12.
I would encourage you to contact DPMS for details of their 180+grain loads, since they said their rifle likes 'em. I'm curious to find out what powder they use.
Mike,
What bullet weight in 40S&W do you reload? Also, is the hard-cast a no-no for a Glock?
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Mar 21, 2011 16:06:24 GMT
Mike I'll look into the hard cast bullets. That sound like it'll be a good idea for loading 45acp.
Ryan thanks for the advice and I'll definitely be looking more into different types of ammo too. Really though I'm looking to find a load that prints well on paper and is god for taking game up to large deer size. I'd prefer not to load multiple loads for different purposes although I know that if I want max accuracy that's what I will need to do. I'm looking for a good compromise though.
Larry its not dpms that says that about their rifles, just many owners of that particular rifle. That said I'm actually leaning toward shooting the rifle a few hundred more rounds with different weight bullets and seeing what happens after the rifle is fully broken in.
Oh and I'll be hand loading with a lee hand loader so yes single rounds all the way till I decide to invest in something more like a progressive or turret setup.
Oh yes about the heavier loads - everything I've read was about using the Varget powder with everything from 150gr to 200+gr. Others have stated using one off the two powders you stated. There was mention off one other powder but I can't recall what it was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 16:15:43 GMT
If you want to take game and shoot long range paper aswell then the the Amax's are the way to go IMO. They have 168s, 178s, and the 208s, all of which are good for both paper and game, put them over some RL17 and your good to go.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 21, 2011 16:38:35 GMT
I use 180 gr TCFPs at 1,000 fps with Titegroup. Can't remember the exact load, but it's around 0.3 gr less than the load of Titegroup for jacketed bullets.
Two things to remember about loading cast bullets: 1) They provide a much better gas seal compared to jacketed bullets. So less powder is required for the same velocity, when compared to jacketed bullets of the same weight. 2) Don't shoot cast bullets in Glock barrels, as a rule. The polygonal rifling doesn't interact well with cast bullets and extreme fowling can result, even up to pluggin the bore enough to cause over-pressure problems. That doesn't happen with a conventionally rifled barrel. So I usually replace the factory barrels on my Glocks with ones from Lone Wolf, Wilson Combat, or Bar-Sto. At least I replace the barrels when shooting cast bullets. My factory Glock barrels only see jacketed bullets.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 21, 2011 19:02:41 GMT
Your experience is with bolt guns, correct? From all that I've read RL-17 is close in burn rate to IMR4350 which is not advised for gas guns. 308 Winchester Service Rifle DataRL-15 is slowest Reloader powder recommended.
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Post by GUEST on Mar 21, 2011 19:16:52 GMT
I agree with Larry I use AA2520 too, using neither a Nolser 165gr ballistic tip or a Sierra match king 168gr bullet. I do load a little lighter at 41.0grs. to match the Federal factory match load.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:03:23 GMT
Ya my experience is with bolt guns, so to speak. I'm just getting into reloading and I've been doing alot of reading in reguards to reloading the .300wm and the 6.5 Grendel because that is what I intend to reload for. My .300 is a bolt action savage and the grendel is a "bolt on" upper for my .223 AR. Where I've done most of my research has been tailored to bolt guns, mostly but not completely. I know very little about reloading the .308 win, I was more trying to advise on bullet selection, as I've looked into the 30 cal bullets alot because of my 300wm. I just know I've heard many many people say that RL-17 is the powder to go to for the 308, they must all shoot bolt guns.
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