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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jul 17, 2007 19:45:49 GMT
I'm positive that if I was let loose with a forge, some steel and a hammer my best result would resemble a pretzel rather than a sword.
I am, however, pretty handy with a huge angle grinder, file, or flapwheel.
Can anyone recommend a suitable tool for home stock removal?
I may give it a go.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 17, 2007 22:05:17 GMT
IMO the problem isn't so much doing the stock removal at home. It's getting the finished (mostly finished) blade heat treated properly, since whatever method you use will likely build up enough heat that redoing the heat treat will be required.
But I've never ground out a sword at home, so it's just an opinion...
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jul 18, 2007 20:34:09 GMT
In my opinion, the biggest problem would be the shaping, since I'm no artist. I'm just handy with a grinder and a file.
I can send the finished blade off to a heat treaters.
Or I may just build a much bigger version of the coffee can forge and try my hand at home-tempering as well. Who cares if it doesnt work, it'll be great fun ;D
Now all I need is at least five propane torches and a couple of firebricks.
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Post by jw on Jul 20, 2007 18:54:44 GMT
There is a good reason why steel is pounded into the shape of a sword and not ground down. The blows create strength in the metal matrix, it is sorta like the difference between a cold forged and a cast item. The cold forged item will be significantly stronger than the cast item. Shot-peening is a process where metal balls are fired at the metal (like sandblasting) to strengthen the outer layer of the steel, this would be similar to forging the blade from a billet. Not trying to discourage you just trying to pass on what I know about metal working in general, swords may be different, but they are metal so... Plus, it NEVER hurts to give it a try, you'll learn the most by doing and testing the results. JW
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Jul 20, 2007 20:29:47 GMT
There is a good reason why steel is pounded into the shape of a sword and not ground down. The blows create strength in the metal matrix, it is sorta like the difference between a cold forged and a cast item. The cold forged item will be significantly stronger than the cast item. Shot-peening is a process where metal balls are fired at the metal (like sandblasting) to strengthen the outer layer of the steel, this would be similar to forging the blade from a billet. Not trying to discourage you just trying to pass on what I know about metal working in general, swords may be different, but they are metal so... Plus, it NEVER hurts to give it a try, you'll learn the most by doing and testing the results. JW I would disagree with you here. Forging can 'work-harden' a piece of metal, but this is best done when the metal is cold, and at the best, any work hardening will be very inconsistant, and may even lead to the sword being less reliable. Also, stock removal IS a traditional sword making method. Swords have been ground into shape for hundreds of years. This was far less common than forging, though, due to the fact that it wasted materials. Finally, work-hardening when forging is irrelevant to swords because as they are heat-treated, the structure of the steel alters to a point when any previous alteration of the structure when forging will change. A final example of why this is true is that Angus trim himself produces his swords by stock removal. Have his swords ever been criticized for lacking functionality? I think not. Thus, stock removal is fine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2007 16:42:37 GMT
Matt your words of wisdom have encouraged me. i am in the process of making my first "real" sword and i to am using an angle grinder. i was warry of how the heat would affect the steel but in my nearing completion, i have seen no real changes to the temper of integrity of the steel. it still flexes an incredible amount while maintaining a good edge despite what i hit with it. seein as im somewhat new to the whole sword making, it is nice to know that im not using some shotty method thx
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 10:10:59 GMT
Actually no properly done stock removal can be done on an already heat treated blade, it will just take longer. First off get yourself a grinder that is water fed, so the metal will not heat too much. Have both a stone and belt grinder handy. When using a hand held for more fine work, you go over the metal with a wet rag frequently. Also a bandsaw that is oil fed or waterfed will allow you to cut out your blank shape very well. Many believe a stock removal blade is better, since you don't have the inconsistancies that occur with forging and the varying temperatures that come with it. Many also say neither is better and that both are equal. Then there are hand files and tools, or you can use the old drill and hack saw method, though that is prohibitively more time consuming. A good quality band saw cutting already hardened metal thats oill or water fed will cost a decent amount, but not as much as you think. You have to shop around, setting up a shop would not be too hard, but I htink you will find that stock removal is not as easy as you think, and it actually takes longer then forging. If you want to simply work on un hardened steel, which would be easier, you simply call up a steel services company and have them heat treat it to your specifications once your done, could end up costing about a 150 dollars though. However, steel services companies use science and have many different methods to heat treat, as well as temper a blade, which is actually a stress removal process, they are not the same thing. I have talked to some that run close to 200. However, if you have made a premium blade out of some very high quality steel, a couple hundred for a near perfect heat treatment job is well worth it. If your looking for good steel, there are some steel services companies that sell exactly what you need, and can even cut it to your specs. You might end up spending a bit on the steel, maybe over a hundred dollars, depending on what you want, but the steel will have an even carbon content throughout, and be of the highest quality. Keep in mind exactly what you will use the sword for, and research different steels. I have found 5160 is an excellent steel with many good qualities, but to be honest, there are so many different steels and alloy steels, well, there is a great deal for you to do and learn, so have fun. Oh, and as for where to find these folks, just look in your trusty yellow pages under steel services, and start a dialing. Hope I have been of some help, and if I have, a simple thank you will suffice. Take care
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 10:22:43 GMT
JW what you are talking about is work hardening the steel, and that is not a big factor when the metal is heated, nd in fact real work hardening only occurs when cold steel is beaten. Someone has misinformed you as to what happens. The kind of compression you are talking about only realy occurs with cold metal, as hot metal is far too maleable to compress to the degree that you are refering to, it will just flatten out, not compress. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 17:37:41 GMT
In regards to stock removal...if i am using an angle grinder, will i greatly affect the steel if i continuously add water to cool it while im grinding. And if it does affect it will it be substantial or no?
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Aug 22, 2007 18:07:38 GMT
Hey Fatecaller. I am an amateur and can't answer your questions, but I thought I'd direct you to a thread which shows a rig I made up to grind a stage blunt to a sharp primary bevel. There was a lot of bulk to discard.
I made a jig for a bench grinder and added a water drip.
I found it worked great, and didn't heat the job up to a dangerous level, until the edge got very fine - then it heated up too much. I was also able to sculpt the grind with alot of accuracy. /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=1183463660
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 19:25:34 GMT
thanks man that was really helpful. ill see if i can incorporate that into my workings.
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