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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Feb 9, 2011 21:22:21 GMT
I've recently been eying a sword for sale at a local antique mall. I first saw it a month or so ago when I visited the place with a friend, and the hilt immediately struck me as looking exactly like that of a British 1796 light cavalry sabre. A week or so later I went again and this time asked to hold the sword and draw it from its scabbard to get a look at the blade, and was surprised to see that it didn't look like that of the famous 1796, but instead had a narrower fuller and a spear point. I went in again today to take another look at it from behind the glass to reconfirm the shape of the hilt. Despite the sword being labeled "early 19th century cavalry sabre" (I think, may have misread it), the only swords I found while perusing the internet that resembled it were mid to late 19th century Prussian "Blucher" sabre models. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what it may be? I suppose I could just ask the dealer, but I wouldn't mind having third party opinions. I considered snapping a photo of it with my cell phone cam, but decided against it as I assumed it would be rude (am I wrong here?). If I can conclusively identify the sword I'll definitely consider buying it whenever I have the money.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 9, 2011 21:40:03 GMT
Hi Matt: Taking a pic and looking for opinions from outside sources is VERY acceptable. Antiques dealers aren't necessarily edged weapons specialists or proficient in every country's types so getting other opinions is most acceptable. What they want is a sale. And if an informed opinion makes you happy with the deal; all is good. Without a pic I wouldn't consider giving you an opinion. There are too many variants. You can join Oldswords.com for 10.00. They have a small but useful library of private owner pics of military swords from most major european countries. You may find what you are looking for there. But with a few shots of your perspective sword I'm sure you will get what help we can offer here. I have 2 standard '96s in my collection, but no Prussian Blucher. Got plenty of reference book though...
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Post by LittleJP on Feb 10, 2011 0:37:33 GMT
Dave, I think you should start a book...typography of 19th century Military sabres.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Feb 10, 2011 9:07:51 GMT
Thanks for the answer, Dave. I'll see if I can get over there again and take some pictures sometime in the next few days. I assume it would help a lot if I got both the blade and any markings on it?
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Feb 14, 2011 21:10:10 GMT
Snapped some rather poor quality pictures with my cell phone camera at the shop today. Ignore the straight sword next to it, of course. Although I didn't manage to get any of the blade, from what I remember it looked like that of the saber in this SFI thread (in fact I suspect that it's indeed of the same type): swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99444Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2011 21:22:39 GMT
your on the correct track......without closer shots of the blade, markings etc.........Austrian or Bavarian is my guess.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 14, 2011 22:04:31 GMT
Billiam's right about the need to look at the blade. The Blucher, like the British '96 retains a 1.5 inch foible well up to the point. Later day manifestations of this Prussian model used the more pronounced "P" stirrup and a more refined foible. Oh, and the model was used by all branches of the army ( Inf, Cav, Arty ).
The one ring carrier also dates this to sometime after 1880.
Best guess without the blade...
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Post by ShooterMike on Feb 14, 2011 22:09:09 GMT
Seconding the suggestion to get a good listing of the markings that will be stamped into the forward portion fo the guard and the base of the blade, near the guard. There are a variety of European sabers from the early nineteenth century that shared this type of guard. And quite a few of the Austrian and German sabers used the single ring metal scabbards your photo shows. I have what has been said to be an Austrian M1831 Artillery Saber that looks very similar. But I have seen identical sabers offered for sale with slightly different descriptions. Here's mine: If you come back here with a good listing of the markings, I bet the good gentlement above can come up with good intell on the piece. EDIT: Oops, cross posted with Dave. I was unaware that the single ring suspension was post 1880. I thought that trend started 40-50 years earlier. Thanks, I learned something.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Feb 19, 2011 22:02:36 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 20, 2011 13:35:29 GMT
I can't add anything from these pics. Later half of the 19th Cent, "Blucher" type German saber.
Would have been more useful to see if there were markings on the blade and scabbard to help establish a unit and german state.
Swords tended to be rather long lived. Older models were simply recycled into national arsenals for refurb and reissue to lower echeloned regiments.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Feb 20, 2011 15:54:58 GMT
Thanks for the response, Dave. Honestly, my main concern was whether or not this sword was an authentic antique, though I suppose I had little reason to doubt it was in the first place. I think I'm going to go ahead and get it (sometime within the next few weeks, hopefully) and once I take it home I'll get some better pictures of the markings. As I said I couldn't even make them out with my own two eyes, but at home I'll have access to a much better camera and be able to hold the sword up to a much brighter source of light.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.
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Post by caferacer on May 14, 2011 14:25:30 GMT
very cool sword, so what is the update did you get it and if so when can we expect some better pics?
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