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Post by Ilúvatar on Feb 7, 2011 21:27:51 GMT
Hi guys,
My name is Paul, and I just joined this wonderful forum.
So my question is this: is there any right form or technique when cutting, or is it just what is comfortable to you?
I've had the Valiant Armoury Signature Bristol (First real sword) for a while now, and I've been cutting occasionally. It just never really felt right and natural, and I'm not very satisfied with my cuts. So, if you guys could please help me, that would be great. Any other tips you can offer a beginner would be much appreciated as well.
Thanks,
Paul
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 7, 2011 21:50:46 GMT
Hello and welcome, There is indeed many correct forms/techniques to cutting. Hang on unti tonight when everybody starts coming on the forum and I'm sure you'll get advice from others with more knowledge than me. For now I'll just post a link to a great thread about edge allignment..gimme a sec to find it. In the meantime, have you been searching in the backyard cutting and sword training sub forums? edit/add: Ok, here's the thread I was thinking of, it's from the old forum.sbgswordforum.proboards.com/inde ... 333&page=1 |
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Post by Ilúvatar on Feb 7, 2011 22:05:58 GMT
Thanks for the reply. It helped.
No i haven't been looking the bckyard cutting forums... where would I find those?
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Post by Hiroshi on Feb 7, 2011 22:09:22 GMT
There is absolutely! But it really depends on what your comfortable with as well. There is alot of historical data of European martial arts and sword techniques that show us the ways that were developed of the last thousand years or so. Check out TomK's youtube channel. He does some great cutting and is pretty familiar with the old ways. www.youtube.com/user/IanflaerI'm sure there are alot more people here with plenty of knowledge and I'm sure they'll post soon. |
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 7, 2011 23:09:40 GMT
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Post by MEversbergII on Feb 8, 2011 3:39:30 GMT
I have discovered that using footwork with plastic cutting targets (jugs) typically makes it harder to cut them.
Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?
M.
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Post by ShooterMike on Feb 8, 2011 3:53:12 GMT
I just sent this in PM, but thought I should also post it here so others can critique and/or add thoughts to this idea.
"The key (to my ideas of "cutting into the crotch opening") is that your crotch is where the hilt would end up if you continued the cut to the extreme limits of travel. But for most downward cuts the edge should stop in a lower guard. The old masters taught that each cut was a slicing or cutting transition from one guard to another, i.e. a downward diagonal right-to-left cut is a movement from a high right guard to a low left guard. And vice versa for a downward left cut, high left guard to low right guard. Then the upward cuts were just the reverse, low guard slicing to high guard.
Try these cuts slowly with no target, and focus on getting the sword smoothly from guard to guard. Then do it with the apppropriate step. Then try those motions with a single water bottle in the way at solar plexus height. Don't try cutting the bottle, just work on moving the sword from guard to guard."
I feel footwork is imperative to the techniques and that proper footwork makes the cuts easier. And conversely, footwork that is a little off will really show at the cutting stand. If the footwork is off, it makes cutting harder. Cutting techniques and footwork seem to feed off each other when they are in tune... or they really argue with each other when they are in disagreement.
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 8, 2011 4:00:51 GMT
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 8, 2011 4:16:04 GMT
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Post by Elheru Aran on Feb 8, 2011 15:26:25 GMT
The simplest way to explain it, I think, is that regardless of whatever form you're using, you want the blade to go through the target with the least resistance possible. To do this, you have to cut with the blade lined up through the edge. If your blade is just a bit tilted away from that path, you'll get a rough cut; more tilt, and you'll slash/bat the target.
Good form helps but ultimately edge alignment is what counts; good form just helps you maintain proper alignment on a more consistent basis than just taking a random whack at the target. The reason random whacks do work sometimes is because you accidentally get good alignment sometimes. When you use good form (whatever form you use, Asian, Japanese, Western, etc), then you have greater odds of getting better alignment on a more consistent basis.
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 8, 2011 16:35:49 GMT
Fixed that for you. :geek:
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Feb 8, 2011 17:28:15 GMT
Elheru,
while what you are saying is basically true I think it is quite misleading. form does more than just improve your chances at edge alignment. it helps you KEEP edge alignment after contact with the target but it does so much more. goor form allows you to apply proper power to the cut through good body mechanics and leverage, it allows you to attack and defend smoothly (ok not so important when you kill water bottles but just as you practice so shall you perform so do it right I say), good form is the very basis of good swordsmanship. even if you never fight even so much as a sparring match you should at least try to use good for because it is good for your body and it can teach you things all by itself.
Mike did a video a long time ago that is just a great resource for new cutters looking for tips on form and cutting. I can't find it right now but if no one links it I will try to do it later when I can get to it.
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Feb 8, 2011 19:44:11 GMT
Ilúvatar, if you have a camera, the best way we could help you is for you to film yourself cutting and post it. For instance, back when I was first learning to cut, I had posted this lovely video: As you can see, I was horrible. But after I posted it I got some VERY good pointers from the members here and was able to correct myself without issue. Oh, and I also found the other instructional video from ShooterMike: Don't feel bad Tom, it took me about 30 mins of going through his videos to find it: The reason it took 30 minutes is because there were a few vids that I had missed when I was doing my ShooterMike youtube marathon.  |
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Feb 8, 2011 20:15:51 GMT
naa the reason I couldn't find it was I'm at work and I'm not allowed to look at Youtube videos, but SBG is ok, go fig.
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 8, 2011 20:18:43 GMT
thanks Tendrax
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Post by Tendrax on Feb 8, 2011 20:33:58 GMT
You're welcome.
Greg, Interesting, seems you started with the same problem I have. It's so odd. It must have something to do with body mechanics, but I just can't figure out the cause of it. Oh well, practice practice practice.
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 8, 2011 21:10:00 GMT
another dilema can arise when changing swords, even in same style. balance and harmonics, causing a different "sweet" spot for cutting node. i had to do some cutting style adjustments when using the rodell jian as opposed to my jin-shi. length and balance made a difference in the cut do to cutting node differences. might be something mike h. or tom k can shed some light on.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Feb 8, 2011 21:51:03 GMT
oh yes, vibrational, or rotational nodes can change dramatically with different swords even when they are the same design and pretty close to the same weight and all. small changed in the sword can make for quite a different sword. I often find cutting for my reviews very challenging because I am usually cutting with several different and new swords in one session. this really highlites the differences of each sword. some swords are pickier about edge alignment, and you never know where the sweet spot is going to be until you play with it. interestingly a recent sword I cut with was pretty picky on edge alignment outside the sweet spot except when cuting with the tip, even though the drop test showed plenty of bounce on the tip, that sword just cut great out on the tip. I had no reason to think it should other than the type of sword would suggest that use.
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 8, 2011 22:39:36 GMT
tom when i made my hybrid jian from a bastard sword blade, i had exactly that problem with node change.
even tho i had my balance where it should be buy the original design
i couldnt cut like a jian, so mike h. told me to cut further from the tip like a bastard sword should and it went well.
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Post by Ilúvatar on Feb 8, 2011 23:24:18 GMT
Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. This was all extremely helpful.
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